Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Cutty Sark

Post by Renegadenemo » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:18 pm

I'm glad they are not in the picture re the resoration of K7
They wanted to build the nose from plastic with the sides missing so you could see inside. I remember them as completely and utterly clueless. Not an engineer amongst them.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

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Dominic Owen
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Re: Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

Post by Dominic Owen » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:59 pm

I said a little while ago that there had to be a 'Type IV' out there somewhere... It seems this most feared and dreaded extreme of 'bottom-feeder' hasn't been discovered until now because they've all been hidden away, busily destroying an iconic piece of national heritage! :evil:

I suspect, rather strongly, that next on the agenda will be a full re-model of the Houses of Parliament in glass, to stop it from standing out so from the modern developments, and the replacement of the cracked (and, therefore, dangerously faulty) Big Ben with a more soothing electronic chime, limited to 96db in accordance with H&S restrictions.
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DamienB
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Re: Cutty Sark

Post by DamienB » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:26 am

sheppane wrote:The restored 'Cutty Sark' was unveiled by HM the Queen today at Greenwich.

What a missed opportunity. Hoisting this fine ship up on beams, which run through her hull, just so access could be improved.
Whoever thought that was the best solution should hang their head in shame. For £50m they could have resotored her to full seaworthy order.
For £50m they could have built another one and sent it to sea with paying passengers/crew to really demonstrate what it was all about.

After all if the Jubilee Sailing Trust can build the Lord Nelson and Tenacious for a far smaller sum... and the amount of good those guys could do with just a tenth of that amount... makes you weep.
Another HLF poloitically correct solution, all in the name of access. It also goes to show they don't mind destruction of fabric when it suits them.
Bizarre isn't it.

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

Post by Renegadenemo » Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:55 am

Bizarre isn't it.
More criminal than bizarre... now do you believe me when I say they're clueless? I worked my backside off for four years to try to get them behind the BBP and at the end of it they were even more bamboozled than when they began. I said it then and I stand by it now. I wouldn't trust them to sit the right way around on a toilet seat.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
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To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

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Mike Bull
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Re: Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

Post by Mike Bull » Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:30 am

Dominic Owen wrote:I said a little while ago that there had to be a 'Type IV' out there somewhere...
:o Nooooo! We've identified a solitary example of a Type III (Hons), but a Type IV is just too scary to contemplate.

The whole Cutty Sark thing is a farce- where has all that money really gone?!

I'm just back from Belfast, where I did many-plenty Titanic based things including getting a peep over the fence at the Nomadic, which is a very jolly looking little thing. Pics to follow when I've had time to sort through them all!

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Dominic Owen
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Re: Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

Post by Dominic Owen » Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:20 am

Mike Bull wrote:
Dominic Owen wrote:I said a little while ago that there had to be a 'Type IV' out there somewhere...
:o Nooooo! We've identified a solitary example of a Type III (Hons), but a Type IV is just too scary to contemplate.

The whole Cutty Sark thing is a farce- where has all that money really gone?!
Probably no more than £10m on the ship and the rest into the pockets of consultants.

I think 'Type IV's are probably like bigfoot, with the Cutty Sark being the equivalent of the cast of a rather large footprint.
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Renegadenemo
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Re: Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

Post by Renegadenemo » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:45 pm

Because they told lies about how much wood got burned they mostly forgot to mention salvaging teak from a WWI era shipwreck or buying an old school house in India or Burma or somewhere.

http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2011/10/ ... cutty-sark
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
If I give one hour of joy
To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

sparkgap
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Re: Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

Post by sparkgap » Thu Apr 26, 2012 5:40 pm

Dangermouse wrote:I don't see the full reverse/crash stop as likely - Murdoch wasn't that daft, he would have known that not only would it disable the steering but it would also have taken a while for the engines to stop and reverse. A witness reported seeing the telegraphs set to "all stop" on the bridge shortly after, so I'd say it's more likely that he called for "all stop" instead. The rudder would still have responded but Titanic would have begun to slow down. Add misinterpretations by investigators who don't realise that all stop merely means "stop the engines" and you have a tale of a frantic attempt to avoid collision by reversing engines.

There is also the fact that the first most passengers knew was the infamous "like a giant finger drawn along the ship's side" moment of impact. A crash stop would have been a very noisy event with a lot of vibration at such a speed (if it didn't snap the propshafts and wreck the engines), I've experienced similar at harbour speeds on a large ferry before now and you definitely know about it when they reverse engines!

Crashing head-on would probably have left Titanic able to reach New York at the expense of anyone unfortunate enough to be in the stokers quarters in the bow. However, it's so ingrained to avoid obstacles that people will always try to steer around them. The reckoning is that Murdoch came incredibly close to avoiding the collision but mistimed the second turn (to push the stern around and away from the iceberg) by a few seconds.
AIUI one of the 'defects' was the effect of the centre screw on the performance of the rudder, making it less effective. Also this was driven by the turbine using exhaust steam from the two main engines and could only operate in 'forward'. All the fiddling around to shut off steam, reverse etc would have taken time which they didn't have.
Interestingly just finished reading a scifi book called The Company Of The Dead which uses as one of its central themes somebody from the future trying to prevent the tragedy. Some interesting twists ensue!

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Mike Bull
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Re: Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

Post by Mike Bull » Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:50 am

Well as mentioned previously I'm just back from Belfast where we had a short break that we enjoyed a great deal; the city is great (though still very busy regenerating itself) and we even got lucky with the weather! Although there were diversions to Belfast Zoo and a whole host of other things, it was primarily a Titanic themed trip so this thread is good for a few piccies.

This piece of art in the Titanic Quarter tickled me no end-
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-and then of course there's this little beauty, well on her way now to completion-
02.jpg
Maybe it's the sheer freshness of her paint, but I did think she looked a bit like a giant Airfix model that someone had just finished! And while 99% of the people on the planet won't care less, it's almost certain that they've gotten the 'White Star Buff' colour of the funnel wrong. (Google the debates on the matter at your peril- it makes 'what colour is Bluebird blue?' seem tame!)
03.jpg
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A lovely little thing, though of course I'd rather see her steaming up and down the place if it was up to me!
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Immediately adjacent to the Nomadic is Titanic Belfast, the big new bells and whistles multi-million pound attraction that's been open for about a month now. The actual building is undoubtedly incredible-
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-but as an exhibition inside, I found it a little mixed. It starts well- just stepping into the atrium is very overwhelming and then Gallery 2 which covers the ship's design and building is very good indeed, although the 'shipyard ride' is a little brief and not THAT special. As an aside, this amused me, and I shall be advising all the team to submit their invoices to Bill forthwith-
05a.jpg
:lol:

Gallery 3 covers the launch, and you'll find yourself up high in the building by this point, looking out over the original slipways where Olympic and Titanic were built. A fancy window clicks from the modern day view to an archive photo and back, while film of Olympic's launch plays on a loop-
05b.jpg
Gallery 4 is another of the better ones, covering the fitting out of the ship- here's there's full sized recreations of a cabin from each class, and a clever 'tour' of the ship via three massive computer screens that surround you. After this it's all downhill- I was expecting something special from the sinking gallery, especially as the air is chilled as you walk in, but it comprised of nothing more than a large screen showing a very poor animation of the ship going down- in one piece, at entirely the wrong angle, etc- little more than a cartoon really. Then there's a bit about the aftermath with a mock up lifeboat, an afterthought section on Titanic in popular culture, and a movie theatre where you watch some wreck footage, which has an awful fake commentary over the top of it from two 'explorers'.

So that's that...an absolute must-do if you're there, but, perhaps not all that you might expect- a real triumph of considerable style over little true substance! The real history is far, far more compelling- such as the original slipways behind the building-
06.jpg
Being one of the saddest people on the planet, I just happened to have a penny from 1912 in my pocket, and plonked it on Titanic's slipway for a shot...
07.jpg
The absolute highlight of the whole trip for me was taking the short tour of the original Harland and Wolff drawing offices- the buildings are run down and very original, and the atmosphere in there is fabulous. This Titanorak was rather moved to go into designer Thomas Andrews' office and touch his old desk etc. :oops:
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Further down the road is HMS Caroline, WW1/Battle of Jutland survivor- abandoned for now, and the matter of some debate re. it's future apparently.
09.jpg
Beyond Caroline we get to the 'Titanic dock', the Thompson Graving Dock where the Olympic class liners were fitted out. There's only so many ways you can photograph a big hole in the ground, so I'd planned ahead, taken some archive shots with me on my phone, and lined up a couple of 'then and now' shots...

Titanic at the fitting out wharf-
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Olympic in the dock-
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Lastly, some bloody tourist Titanorak...
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8-)

We also went to the Ulster Folk and Transport Museum, which holds such beauties as original Olympic class design drawings (on linen!) complete with annotations in red for detail differences to the Titanic, and a great selection of actual fixtures and fittings that were saved from the Olympic- I nearly wet myself! :oops: :lol:
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Re: Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

Post by alslad » Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:00 am

Nice photos Mike. The ones with the 'ghost' ships are particularly thought provoking.

I've done the Titanic experience in Orlando a couple of times and thought it was bloody fantastic! They have guides portraying characters from the time (we had a lady traveller one time and a shipyard worker another, but they seemed very clued up on things when questions were asked). There was so much there I struggle to remember, but there was a large viewing area with 'life size' props and anchor, and I also remember taking a pic of my kids at the bottom of 'the grand staircase'.

Would be nice to get over the water to see the Belfast take on it for comparison
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