Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

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klingon
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Re: SS Nomadic

Post by klingon » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:06 pm

and has a half life measured in Quango's ;)
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Renegadenemo
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Re: SS Nomadic

Post by Renegadenemo » Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:13 am

I finally got around to having a dig through the NPS website this morning (I was due on a cancelled flight to Cardiff to speak at a conference, grrr!) and I have to say she's a gorgeous old ship and in fair condition too, by the looks. I also had a good dig through a pile of paperwork relating to our HLF bids whilst preparing today's aborted presentation and was frankly amazed by the stupid amounts of money that our consultants reckoned were needed to build our tin boat. They were planning on spending £492,506 on 'Repair and Conservation work' [sic] and 'Professional fees' ran to an astonishing £137,575. Where do they dream this nonsense up?
K7 will have cost a tiny fraction of this amount by the time she's built leading me to conclude that these people are either so thick that they can't see any option but to spew money at the problem or so greedy that an independent commission ought to be looking at who's being paid what from the lottery cheque book. Then I saw this when going back through the forum posting...
All the NPS needs is £250,000 to get the complete system dismantled, crated and transported to Mombasa, ready for shipping back to the UK.
Now I'm not suggesting this figure is in any way influenced by either of the scenarios above but it does seem like an awful lot of money to strip out a small engine room and haul the scrap back to blighty. How does that figure break down? If you don't mind me asking, of course.
By the way - feel free to link to our site and if you want a reciprocal link please speak to Alain, our talented webmaster. He's here somewhere.
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"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
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Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

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Piston Broke
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Re: SS Nomadic

Post by Piston Broke » Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:23 pm

W01Whistling2.gif
I'm here

jsut send me the link and a logo/picture to go on our links page
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Roo
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Re: SS Nomadic

Post by Roo » Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:50 pm

Hi Piston Broke,

That's great so thanks very much - likewise, if you want to email/PM me the same, we shall put yours up on ours when the new homepage is finished.

However, regards the post somebody put about the engines scenario, it's like this :-

One of our members was an engineer on the Queen Elizabeth back in the 60's and recalls seeing Nomadic coming up to the ship on various occasions. He now runs a fleet of steamships on the Great Lakes. However, it came to his attention that there was a ship on the shores of Lake Victoria whose owner wanted to convert the ship to diesel - and he wanted rid of all the steam producing/using machinery. This meant engines, boilers, condensers, all pumps, starting platform, telegraphs - to cut a long story short, it was the entire engine room down to the last pipe, nut and union. On top of this, they were adding both propshafts and props (plus spare props), thrust blocks, bearings, windlass, steam steering gear and all bridge controls etc.

Now, this is quite some set up. And as luck would happen, the size of the engine room on both ships are practically identical - with Nomadic's being a tad larger. Yet of course, the owner wanted to sell them and he originally wanted £400,000 but after much negotiation, we agreed on a price of £250,000 which included dismantling, crating and sending overland to the Port of Mombassa. Once there, we would have to ship it. Given that the price to get all the required items to make a fully operational steamship would cost around £1.5m for the main items alone, we feel this is a fair price.

It is highly unlikely that this sort of opportunity to get all the items to make Nomadic complete will ever arise again, certainly regards engine room size and required power. However, there is nothing forthcoming from the NCT regards to any re-engining - and if it does it may only be replicas/mock ups. It is possible they would take this course of action because the engines under discussion here are not her originals. Yet, Conservation Management Plans state that if the actual items are no longer in existence, the next best thing are period items. And this, they are.

The whole situation is very, very tender - but there is always a way forward.

Roo.

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Renegadenemo
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Re: SS Nomadic

Post by Renegadenemo » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:45 pm

The whole situation is very, very tender - but there is always a way forward.
So does the NPS have any money or the means to raise funding of that order? If you're not a charitable organisation or lack a museum partner the Lottery-Flops will run a mile especially as you have no jurisdiction over the object. If the NCT holds all the cards and have their roots in bureaucracy they'll be crapping themselves at the thought of a pile of phosphor bronze and cast iron being shipped home from Africa so a crew of greasy men can spanner it back together when for less money their 'experts' and consultants could create a vegan restaurant and a conference venue that remains tied safely against the quay for the rest of time. Have you tried speaking with the Waverley Steam Navigation Co? They certainly know how to go on. The Hapless Lottery Failure tipped £6million into completely gutting and rebuilding PS Waverley back in 2003 whilst telling us in the same breath that to rebuild dead boats was to destroy history.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
If I give one hour of joy
To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

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Mike Bull
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Re: SS Nomadic

Post by Mike Bull » Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:59 am

Renegadenemo wrote:The Hapless Lottery Failure tipped £6million into completely gutting and rebuilding PS Waverley back in 2003 whilst telling us in the same breath that to rebuild dead boats was to destroy history.
Blimey, you're not kidding- just took a look through the diary here-

http://pswaverley.org.uk/

- quite a bit of LOOF going on there!
'I am not what is called a "civilized man", Professor. I have done with society for reasons that seem good to me.'

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Renegadenemo
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Re: SS Nomadic

Post by Renegadenemo » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:28 pm

- quite a bit of LOOF going on there!
There was a tremendous amount of LOOF but that's what it took to keep the beautiful old paddler going. My mum used to hop aboard Waverley to cross from Gourock to Dunoon to visit her granny and I've been aboard a time or three. First chance I get my kids will go on her too. Can't do that with a dead machine.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
If I give one hour of joy
To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

Mentallica
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Re: SS Nomadic

Post by Mentallica » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:52 am

Very Interesting points on SS Nomadic, I hope that one day she sails properly again.

Please keep us up-to-date on any developments

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Pullman99
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Re: SS Nomadic

Post by Pullman99 » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:21 pm

I've been dipping into previous threads from time to time and finally read through this one on the more than somewhat turbulent events surrounding the rescue of the SS Nomadic. I have been on the Society's website as well over a couple of years although I was slightly aware of the difficulties presented by the relationship betwen the Society and the ship's owning charitable trust. This thread has gone much deeper in exposing what is a desperately sad and difficult situation and that doesn't come across very clearly at all on the NPS website.

A great deal of this is familiar to me. A number of years ago, I was Marketing & Publicity Officer for HMS Warrior at Portsmouth and there we had to deal with a vessel that had its own particular political difficulties and ownership issues but ultimately restored by a hugely dedicated and brilliant team in Hartlepool. I, unfortunately, was not that closely involved with the work carried out at Hartlepool but was very much at the sharp end (should that be prow?)in Portsmouth. There we had to deal not only with two separate charitable trusts with an owning interest in the ship, but also Portsmouth City Council, the MOD, HM Naval Base, Hampshire County Council, two separate charitable trusts that were both responsible for the commercial redevelopment of the "heritage" area of the Naval Base, and the separate management teams of The Royal Naval Museum, HMS Victory, and The Mary Rose. Have I left anyone out?

In the main, I would say that most of the organisations were pulling in the same direction and there was a clear intent that all the attractions of the Naval Base should form the core of the new tourism based renaissance that was then (mid-1980s) emerging in Portsmouth. The city is justly proud of its naval heritage and always fully acknowledged the skills and expertise that Hartlepool and its craftsmen contributed during the restoration of HMS Warrior.

There are of course a number of major ship projects out there that are going through similar circumstances as the SS Nomadic. Not least the current plight of the PS Lincoln Castle which was the last coal-fired passenger steamship in commercial service in the UK. This website gives further details http://paddlesteamers.awardspace.com/LincolnCastle.htm. The word brinksmanship springs to mind but clearly North East Linclolnshire Council needs to get its act together.

This year, in fact on 19th July, sees the 40th anniversary of thre return to her birthplace of Brunel's SS Great Britain. Back in 1970, that ship was brought back amidst great controversy as well as open hostility from the City Council. Now it's their jewel in the crown as far as Bristol tourism is concerned. The enormous number of visitors that she has attracted in 40 years and the clear economic benefits are surely a demonstration to other authorities of what can be achieved.

I wish everyone in the NPS the very best in their endeavours to proceed along recognised and proven lines. Anything less is unacceptable and the NI government should recognise this. I do wonder if the government funding, and its associated waste that has been highlighted here, will still be on tap following the UK Government's current tightening of the purse strings?
Ian Robinson
Bluebird K7 - the restoration project of the Century.

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Mike Bull
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Re: SS Nomadic

Post by Mike Bull » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:23 am

Pullman99 wrote:This year, in fact on 19th July, sees the 40th anniversary of thre return to her birthplace of Brunel's SS Great Britain. Back in 1970, that ship was brought back amidst great controversy as well as open hostility from the City Council. Now it's their jewel in the crown as far as Bristol tourism is concerned. The enormous number of visitors that she has attracted in 40 years and the clear economic benefits are surely a demonstration to other authorities of what can be achieved.
SS Great Britain is a fantastic visitor experience, with the ship itself now fully rebuilt inside and out of the original hull, the ability to go to the floor of the dock under the ship, and the associated museum beside the ship also. First time I went there the hull was empty-now it's full of cabins, dining rooms, an engine slowly turning in the engine room, etc! Okay so nothing at all is original save for the actual hull of the ship itself- and even that is rather poorly with a lot of LOOF- but they really have made something fantastic out of it.

From my own last visit to the ship in 2008-

'Afloat' in the original dock where she was built by Brunel-
GB01.jpg
GB02.jpg
The view from the dock floor-
GB03.jpg
Evidence of how the hull was 'repaired' when it was first brought back from the Falklands- fibreglass!
GB04.jpg
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