Pic of the Day

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Mike Bull
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Re: Pic of the Day

Post by Mike Bull » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:54 pm

Renegadenemo wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:31 pm
that would be a known phenomenon with vintage cars and such so I'm pretty sure it was always off white.
Who says it's car paint though? White oil based enamel paint and the like is notorious for yellowing with age. (Radiators, old house gloss, etc)

I discount all pictures of the roundels in daylight because it will always look bright and white that way. So we need to look at the roundels in the gloom and the best we can manage there is in the boathouse in 66/67-

310529_290253967659254_126970737320912_1113419_208209013_n.jpg

In the pic above, it looks as if a flash gun has been fired and the front of the boat is a little washed out as a result; further back, along the boat and into the shed, the sponson darkens somewhat and yet the roundel is still a crisp white.

In the pic below, all the colours appear quite over saturated but still the roundel is white (with perhaps a hint of a warm cast that is over the whole picture)

943264_587228657961782_1489641180_n.jpg

But, but but but...the roundel is now a very definite sort of creamy-yellowy colour. I further polished a little area on it and it was coming up whiter if you squint, but like old house paint, it's pretty uniformly discoloured.

Then there's the other white paint on the boat- the lettering on top of the sponsons and the flags- all crisp white. Why do the roundels differently?

I think they should be white, and the original has gone off with age.
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conistoncollie
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Re: Pic of the Day

Post by conistoncollie » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:26 pm

The photo in Neil Sheppard's book shows the signwriter on page 45. A traditional signwriter using signwriter's enamel paint.
Almost certainly he would use the same white for all the white painting. Why wouldn't he? He needs to get the job done and make a profit.
Unless the white roundel ground was sprayed in celulose, but I personally think the signwriter would be contracted to carry out all the graphics, laying down the background fields one day then, after overnight drying, laying on the top graphics.
Not having seen the surviving section of skin with original paint, I am guessing the white was brush painted.
Signwriter's white enamel is oil-based, and of very fine quality, free flowing with good covering power, the oil binder (not the pigment) fades or 'yellows' over time due to pollution in the air.
Even modern gloss white 'yellows' quite quickly. You should see my recently-painted skirting boards.

My money would be on white enamel that has faded or 'yellowed' with age.

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Mike Bull
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Re: Pic of the Day

Post by Mike Bull » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:33 pm

I agree.

The original half of roundel is interesting - the 'white' paint and the black of the (asymmetrical) infinity symbol are very smooth, although there's at least one nasty run in the white! The whole infinity symbol looks to have been painted in one fluid movement, with a single brush about 5/8" wide- a lovely job. Only the black of the surrounding circle betrays previous paint jobs, as you can see different edges and more brush marks.

conistoncollie
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Re: Pic of the Day

Post by conistoncollie » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:44 pm

Some of the paintwork executed by really skilled signwriters and coach painters can be smooth as glass, even though brush-painted.
Real craftsmen.
not only that, they also knew how to draw beautifully proportioned lettering. As you say, usually in one smooth flowing movement.
Not like the computer-generated auto-kerned vinyl used today.

JfromJAGs
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Re: Pic of the Day

Post by JfromJAGs » Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:39 pm

I just checked pictures in Leo's book and I agree, the original colour looks like 'normal' white in those pictures - not yellowish at all like old english white.

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Mike Bull
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Re: Pic of the Day

Post by Mike Bull » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:17 pm

Trouble is, it looks pure white in virtually all outdoor pictures no matter what, due to the daylight.

If the surviving piece has faded and gone creamy with age, it's gone exactly WT3 Old English White in the process!

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Mike Bull
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Re: Pic of the Day

Post by Mike Bull » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:25 pm

OEW today, seen in greyscale...

20190309_192024.jpg
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JfromJAGs
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Re: Pic of the Day

Post by JfromJAGs » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:39 pm

I went through the book again this morning and there is one almost full screen picture of the sign where it does look a tiny bit yellowish, but the whole sponson looks yellowish from pollen and all the other stuff that swims on the water surface. Besides that the whole sponson doesn't look freshly painted in that picture, there is a scratch within the sign, so the yellowish touch could be already some kind of aging.

Maybe the term "old white" comes from aged white and the colour was especially mixed to reassemble aged, former 'normal' white? I'm not a colour specialist, but comparing the sign against white shirts, white overalls and socks, it seams as if the original sign was more a normal white. But I agree, these are 50-60 years old pictures, printed in a book - so they can be missleading.

conistoncollie
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Re: Pic of the Day

Post by conistoncollie » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:18 am

The photo of the two sponsons after the accident available from Mirrorpix shows a pure white.
Occam's Razor
Signwriter presumably asked to paint infinity/Lloyds in black on white.
or was he specifically asked to paint it black on 'off white'

as you are now applying the graphics, did you find any traces of the BS Bristol Siddeley logos on the engine cover?

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Mike Bull
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Re: Pic of the Day

Post by Mike Bull » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:50 am

The Bristol logos were little metal badges that were screwed on- the one on the right was still present when the boat was recovered, not sure about the other one. Bill?

Here's an Old English White Morris Minor in the daylight-

OEW Moggie.jpg

Pretty white, isn't it?
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