The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

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Black Knight
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Black Knight »

For those that frequented air displays in the 80's, Lindsay Walton, the most shot down survivor in history, has passed away :(
Lindsay operated the 1st F-4U-7 Corsair in Europe, in French markings, based at Duxford. He also had a Me 108 which was what he was shot down in at every show. Along with a rare Stearman & a Morane Saulnier Cambodian Gunship, which were based at his farm in Lincolnshire.
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mtskull
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by mtskull »

I'd be very interested to see updates as to how you are getting along with XL319, posted here.....
Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals.
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Renegadenemo
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Renegadenemo »

I'd be very interested to see updates as to how you are getting along with XL319, posted here.....
Since we first ever visited XL319 many moons ago to gather some valves and plug connectors for the K7 build we wondered whether we might light one of her engines. This was way before we'd ever lit one of our own but the idea was there.
So - seeing as K7 is now mothballed in bits until the dark nights come around again we decided to take a serious look at whether it could be done.

The first problem is that XL 319 last felt the heat of combustion 36 years ago and ever since her engines have been slowly congealing into solid, immovable lumps. We decided to go take a look with the blessing of the museum. Of the four engines the two inboard ones are the worst. There's a short, removable trunk between airframe and engine inlet that has worked against those two by letting rainwater get all the way to the compressor whereas with the outboard engines the trunks are missing so the water simply fell out through the bottom and left the engines relatively dry inside.
This halved our options to engines 1 and 4.

No.1 points directly at a mobile phone mast - not that the jet wash at idle would hurt it especially - but No.4 would miss it completely so we chose that one.

Next problem was to see if the engine would ever be capable of starting again and that question still hangs in the balance. The Oly is a twin-spool engine. In a nutshell, it's an engine inside an engine.
The LP compressor drives the LP turbine while the HP compressor drives the HP turbine. They run at different speeds so they each have their own drives shaft with the HP shaft being hollow with the LP shaft running through the middle of it.

https://www.google.com/search?q=twin+sp ... lIx8iwyqRM:

Where this presents a problem is that the HP spool runs all the pumps and accessories and we all know how much fun those piston pumps are when they seize up and the HP spool is buried deep inside of everything where you can't even see it let alone do anything to get it turning. We've fought the tiny B-size Lucas pumps on the Orph' but those on the Oly are monsters by comparison. To aid with things like bleeding the system the Oly comes with a pair of handy turning points let into the gearbox onto which you pop a socket, having removed the blank, and simply wind the relevant spool over with a ratchet. It has a simple dog-clutch that you engage by pushing the drive against a spring and off you go. Except that our HP spool just didn't want to budge.
Long story short - we got an eighth of a turn on the spool using a scaffold pole before the drive failed and took the tips off the dog-clutch. We swapped out the drive from another engine but the half of the clutch inside the gearbox was damaged too and it wouldn't re-engage sufficiently to get any more.
But the fact that it moved at all was encouraging. It obviously isn't seized solid so we had to look at another way of getting some drive into the gearbox.
First thought was to blast some air through the starter but that would be pretty violent and doubtless shock something. Then we thought maybe we could get the starter off in-situ and get a spline drive into where it came from to put a big pull on the gearbox and maybe get things moving that way but, as was pointed out today, not a single millimetre of space that could otherwise be given over to bombs or fuel is wasted on letting you get a spanner onto something so getting the starter off is a no-go.
We seemed to be running out of options at this point until a learned Vulcan engineer suggested that we get at the gearbox via the hydraulic pump drive. The Vulcan has three hyd pumps and guess which lump doesn't have one. No. 4. It took us five minutes to whip off the blanking cover and have a peer into the drive.
It's a female spline but the encouraging sign is that it's working with some pretty chunky bevel gears that we'd need some colossal force to break. Of course we don't know at this stage the extent to which the the gear ratios will work with us or against us but it's obvious that by going in via the hyd pump drive that we can get massively more torque into the HP spool gearbox than we could ever manage via the turning point.
So that's where we've got to. We'll go back next week and measure up the splines, have a shaft machined up then swing off it with a scaffold pole. The advantage there too is that the turning point only lets you turn the spool in one direction whereas if we can get a good pull on the hyd pump drive we can work things back and forth and that's always a better deal.


Assuming we can crack the HP spool loose we'll then have to blast the HP pumps full of something oily and penetrating via the inhibiting points, get the air start working, power up the HEIUs to make sparks, sort some lube oil, fuel, instruments and controls and then, just perhaps...
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

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mtskull
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by mtskull »

Thank you! :D
Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals.
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bluebirdsback
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by bluebirdsback »

I used to live a couple of mile from Usworth air field as it was known then and remember watching it fly in from the back garden. Point of no return when it landed as there wasn't enough room for it to ever take off again. sadly its lay dormant ever since. They used to charge 5p for people to go inside and look around it. Pity no one had the thought to fire the engines up every now and then. Bet that would have drawn a few crowds even today.
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Richie
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Richie »

When living machines go static.....they die a slow horrible death.

Tragic but it is what it is.
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Filtertron
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Filtertron »

They do, but most aren't beyond redemption. Reminds me of the two Rogers built steam locos which were used as fill for a dam wall in New Zealand. They were down there in the mud for nearly 100 years. The mob who wanted them sent a probe down, and found them. When they finally excavated them out, they found that they were in really good condition. Further examination found that around 70% of the original fabric could be used to restore them to working order, and both are now in steam running tourist trains. You blokes have got a pretty good head-start on that Vulcan. I'm curious as to whether or not Bill's natural progression will come into play on the Vulcan. You get one engine going; what's your excuse for not getting the others going...Et cetera.
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Renegadenemo
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Renegadenemo »

I'm curious as to whether or not Bill's natural progression will come into play on the Vulcan. You get one engine going; what's your excuse for not getting the others going...Et cetera.
The inboard pair have pretty severe corrosion damage to the extent that even the LP spools won't turn because the blades are effectively welded to the compressor casing with corrosion product. On the plus side is that all the corrosion product is from the case and not the blades so they are OK at least.

No.4 LP spool was a bit crunchy but turned easily enough by hand but the small amount of movement of the HP spool was crunchy too suggesting that the problem is the same all the way through the compressor. Now if the inboard engine HP spools are as glued as the LP ones getting them turning would be twice the job and it's bloody difficult already and that's without the thousand-million things that could have seized, corroded or given up in the fuel systems.

If we can start one engine it will be a miracle. If we pull off that miracle we'll likely pat ourselves on the back and not tempt fate any further.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.' W.C. Fields.
oldpeculiar49
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by oldpeculiar49 »

Filtertron wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 4:46 pm They do, but most aren't beyond redemption. Reminds me of the two Rogers built steam locos which were used as fill for a dam wall in New Zealand. They were down there in the mud for nearly 100 years. The mob who wanted them sent a probe down, and found them. When they finally excavated them out, they found that they were in really good condition. Further examination found that around 70% of the original fabric could be used to restore them to working order, and both are now in steam running tourist trains. You blokes have got a pretty good head-start on that Vulcan. I'm curious as to whether or not Bill's natural progression will come into play on the Vulcan. You get one engine going; what's your excuse for not getting the others going...Et cetera.
Further to the above if anyones interested
http://the-lothians.blogspot.com/2016/0 ... azing.html
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Filtertron
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Re: The Vulcan XH558 & General Aviation Thread

Post by Filtertron »

They were only under for 47 years...That'll teach me to rely on my memory (it's rubbish at the best of times).
"What are you doing up that tree?"
"We're mountaineering on a rather tight budget."
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