The Sponsons Thread

Post Reply
User avatar
Renegadenemo
Posts: 4922
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:29 pm
Location: N E England
Contact:

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Post by Renegadenemo » Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:55 pm

Another interesting point about the sponson drawings. Ken sent me a complete set along with material spec's very early on in our relationship - in fact it was about the time we discussed the missing ones from K7. I didn't appreciate the significance of this until the rebuild proper started after Ken's death and I discovered that only vague GA's and sketches of various, never-built designs seemed to exist. I'd been sat on the real deal for about five years.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler

quicksilver-wsr
Posts: 1099
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:29 pm

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Post by quicksilver-wsr » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:31 pm

Renegadenemo wrote:Another interesting point about the sponson drawings. Ken sent me a complete set along with material spec's very early on in our relationship - in fact it was about the time we discussed the missing ones from K7. I didn't appreciate the significance of this until the rebuild proper started after Ken's death and I discovered that only vague GA's and sketches of various, never-built designs seemed to exist. I'd been sat on the real deal for about five years.
Yes, interesting stuff. But remember that we are talking about two completely different times. I discovered that Ken didn't have any K7 sponson drawings around 1990, when he wanted a scale set making for "The Stick Model" of Quicksilver. This was around a decade before the time you are talking about (late 2000/early 2001?).

I must say it came as a big shock to me to find that Ken was having to resort to asking around the ranks of speed-record modelmaking enthusiasts to find K7 drawings!

My critics will say I'm on a Ken-bashing exercise again, but I'm not. I'm just wanting to point out that we were confronted with some pretty wacky situations back in those days when trying to do certain things that I had assumed would be fairly straightforward.

In the end we found a modelmaking enthusiast - I can't remember who it was now - who supplied drawings and we got the scale sponsons made (I've still got them - attached to yet another model! A ducted-fan test model), but the whole process was fraught with frustration for Ken and everybody else.

A few years later we had the two full sets of K7 drawings reproduced from the originals that we secured on six months' release from the Science Museum - again, after much distress and energy expended, due to a dispute which arose between Ken and the Science Museum, which I eventually managed to sort out (see earlier posts on the Quicksilver thread).

For the record, I think Ken was in the right in that dispute, but possession is nine-tenths of the law and the Science Museum dug their heels in and weren't going to let him borrow the drawings, which made Ken apoplectic.

Many years later - nearly ten years later, in fact - Ken asked me if I would donate my set of K7 drawings (one set was mine, the other set was Ken's) to you guys to help with K7, and I said, "Yes - certainly" ... and that led to yet another rigmarole, because Ken then couldn't find the drawings!

I found myself in the odd position of having both you, Bill, and Ken, ringing me to ask me where the drawings were, and I kept telling Ken, "Ken, you've got my set - remember? You've got both sets. I never took mine away from Bournemouth. I left my set with you - so you had two sets," whilst at the same time saying to you, "Ken's got them - definitely" ... to which you were replying, "Well Ken says you've got them!"

Fun times, indeed. But I understand it all got sorted in the end and you got the drawings, and in fairness to Ken I hadn't appreciated at the time how much upheaval there had been with Ken moving all his stuff from place to place after his aviation business went belly-up. I kept thinking, "How can he lose two full sets of drawings?" - but, of course it is very easy when there's a big upheaval and everything gets moved from pillar to post.

User avatar
Renegadenemo
Posts: 4922
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:29 pm
Location: N E England
Contact:

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Post by Renegadenemo » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:50 pm

We never did get a full set of drawings and, ironically, the missing ones all came from the pointy end where we most needed info. The first drawing Ken ever sent was for the recovery cradle. That was early 2001 and discussions about rebuilding the boat started in November 2002 so the sponson drawings arrived around that time. The rest we were sent by John Norris in 2006.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler

quicksilver-wsr
Posts: 1099
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:29 pm

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Post by quicksilver-wsr » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:12 pm

Renegadenemo wrote:We never did get a full set of drawings and, ironically, the missing ones all came from the pointy end where we most needed info. The first drawing Ken ever sent was for the recovery cradle. That was early 2001 and discussions about rebuilding the boat started in November 2002 so the sponson drawings arrived around that time. The rest we were sent by John Norris in 2006.
All of the above makes complete sense to me, Bill.

It did occur to me when writing my last post that maybe you never did get a full set. There is a huge time gap there between Ken asking me if I would donate my set to you and you actually getting drawings.

It was all such a pickle, the situation with Ken.

Remember that at this time - early 2001 - I was moving away from Ken. The fact that K7 was about to be raised had nothing to do with the timing of this (John Ackroyd's book is wildly out on this point, as on so many others) but the upshot of all of this - "the Quicksilver affair", as you call it, plus K7 being raised, plus big changes going in Ken's situation down at Bournemouth, as well as his health issues - was that the drawings were not handed over cleanly to you as one full set, which they should have been.

I was having a sort-out a few weeks ago and I came across a list of all the K7 drawings, and design calculations too, that I secured on six-month loan from the Science Museum back in 1992 or '93. Would it help now if I found that list, or is it too late now in the restoration process?

One way of still getting access to the drawings themselves is to get permission to photograph them in situ at the Science Museum.

User avatar
Renegadenemo
Posts: 4922
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:29 pm
Location: N E England
Contact:

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Post by Renegadenemo » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:41 am

I was having a sort-out a few weeks ago and I came across a list of all the K7 drawings, and design calculations too, that I secured on six-month loan from the Science Museum back in 1992 or '93. Would it help now if I found that list, or is it too late now in the restoration process?
Thanks for the offer, Nigel, but I reckon we're past what the drawings can do for us. It's been an informative process in that we've learned that Norris Bros. drew one thing before those good craftsmen at Samlesbury put their own twist on everything and often built things as they saw fit. Much of it is subtle - a shim here, a doubler there - but it's always possible to work out what they were thinking and had we not been short of many of the drawings we perhaps would have missed detail that emerged through many hours of frustrated detective work. The upside of this is that after all this time we effortlessly fall into their mindset when a problem needs solving and do it in a way that's utterly authentic. Spooky that they've been able to hand us their way of doing things across the decades through a heap of mangled metal.
It's fascinating, destroying history...
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler

Rotterdam1953
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:03 pm

K7 Sponsons

Post by Rotterdam1953 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:44 pm

I heard that the thorny subject of K7 sponsons recently arose and I must have missed almost all of the submissions. Could someone please inform me what has been ocurring and/or guide me to the relevant section.
I trust all pertaining correspondence has been ones of moderation?

Many thanks indeed :-)

Arthur



"What good is a dream if you don't make it happen?"

Hi Arthur- have merged your posting into the correct thread -Mike

Terminator
Posts: 701
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:19 pm

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Post by Terminator » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:20 am

Hi Arthur if you go to page 9 of this thread it starts with a Mr. Dave Halliday simply asking a few questions then it kicks off about half way down as you scroll. Makes interesting reading to a point. However old friend remember personal attacks are not acceptable on this site although It is hard not to sometimes. The main posting has also been copied on to the srg and another coloured website.

Cheers
Novie

Happy New Year Mate :)
"Never ride faster than your Angel can fly"

User avatar
Mike Bull
Posts: 4696
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:57 pm

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Post by Mike Bull » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:27 am

Terminator wrote:and another coloured website.
Well, at least it will keep the tumble weeds company there.

On the whole (or should that be 'in the hole'?) the sponsons discussion runs just fine- reasoned discussion from all sides, and some cut and thrust as everyone looks for a common truth- nowt wrong with that. Of course the ideal would be to find them but even if the sponsons were proven to be truly gone- as in, destroyed- it would still be worth getting that definitive answer once and for all.

malcolm uk
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:53 pm
Location: Derby, England

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Post by malcolm uk » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:18 pm

[quote=Of course the ideal would be to find them but even if the sponsons were proven to be truly gone- as in, destroyed- it would still be worth getting that definitive answer once and for all.[/quote]

Not sure that you can prove that the 'negative' definitive answer will apply. You will have to find something to show that they no longer exist as two whole pieces. If those that 'know' are unwilling to give information then much time (better spent on productive reconstruction) will be wasted. We all know where other recovered elements are to be seen and they will not come back to the craft.

Just stay working on that fine cockpit Mike and perhaps one day Novie might wander into the workshop carrying the sponsons, one under each arm. :o Doubt it myself but stranger story lines have been written on soaps.

Malcolm
Malcolm Pittwood
The Bluebird Project
Operations

Terminator
Posts: 701
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:19 pm

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Post by Terminator » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:56 pm

Malcolm
If part of the deal was we could get those sponsons back if I did carry them, one under each arm,Just give me the chance to try that's all I will say to that Malcolm. 8-)
Arthur will tell you a story better than I can regarding an incident on Pendine Beech regarding a heated moment of madness and batteries. :o Mind you then Bill could tel a different tale that was a necessity whilst out retrieving the front spar.

Lets for a moment forget actually getting the sponsons back and ask the question I quote "Where they went and why" forget the went bit. if somebody anybody calling themselves a TRUE Campbell Enthusiast can give me a valid justifiable reason as to WHY they can never be reunited with Bluebird K7 then we could put this thing to bed once and for all. If you cannot answer that simple question by this evening or WON'T then hang your heads in shame from this moment forward.

Novie

I'm waiting :?:
"Never ride faster than your Angel can fly"

Post Reply