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Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:50 pm
by quicksilver-wsr
Terminator wrote:There was a picture of the wreckage you spoke of with the Infinity Logo on it you mentioned somewhere as recovered and Now. Sort of laid over the top or inset if you like knocking about. Anyway that's just one of the sponson skins.
When I referred to that, Novie, I was probably describing a piece of sponson wreckage I saw in Leo's garage at his home in Reigate, in the summer of 1974 - the day Leo introduced me to Ken Norris, in fact. It was quite large and had a logo on, or at least part of a logo - the famous, circular Infinity symbol/K7 logo.

Steve would know better than me where that piece of wreckage went and which piece, precisely, that it was (port or starboard sponson).

As you say, though, it was only a piece of the fairing skin - not a part of the "sponson proper".

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:02 pm
by quicksilver-wsr
On the ball as ever, Mike ...

Yes, that'll be the piece. I think it's one of the more well-known pieces of wreckage recovered in the immediate aftermath of the accident.

Shame it can't be reunited with the boat, but that's an old topic. :(

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:17 pm
by f1steveuk
Mike beat me to it, but that's the bit Nigel, and for my sins it was me that affixed it to the roof beam in the museum (fearing it was the right size to swipe). The piece of sheet Leo cut it from was, over the years cut into pieces by Leo, and given to people who Leo had met who were Campbell fans, indeed the last time I met him, he was nursing a cut from the remains of that very sheet.

Kevin (Desmond, who is a near neighbour down here, although nearer Bourdeux) has a piece of recovered frame and a small section of skin, a gift from Leo, something which I doubt he's ever part with.

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:28 pm
by Renegadenemo
Kevin (Desmond, who is a near neighbour down here, although nearer Bourdeux) has a piece of recovered frame and a small section of skin, a gift from Leo, something which I doubt he's ever part with.
A piece of frame? Very little of it unaccounted for - how big is it?

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:12 pm
by sheppane
Here is a photograph that shows just how large and unwieldy the sponsons were. Another obvious observation is their structural integrity.
Sponsons 05 01 67.jpg
From left to right John Stollery (Imperial College), Bill Jordan, Lewis Norris, Maurie Parfitt and Leo examine the structural bulk of K7's starboard sponson. Note the small indentation half way down the shoe on it's inner edge. Perhaps evidence that as the boat broke up, the sponson hit something, perhaps the main hull of the boat. (or visa versa)
Leo understandably looks as if he would rather be anywhere but there.

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:17 pm
by Renegadenemo
No doubt evidence that as the boat broke up, the sponson hit something the frame of the boat. (or visa versa)
I'd not be too hasty to assume that that's crash damage. The whole lower half of the hull was covered in dings and dents that clearly pre-date the crash. I'd say she was dropped, bumped dragged and shoved about with crowbars for years before Donald did for her.

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:38 pm
by sheppane
Renegadenemo wrote:
No doubt evidence that as the boat broke up, the sponson hit something the frame of the boat. (or visa versa)
I'd not be too hasty to assume that that's crash damage. The whole lower half of the hull was covered in dings and dents that clearly pre-date the crash. I'd say she was dropped, bumped dragged and shoved about with crowbars for years before Donald did for her.
Bill, Point taken, but both shoes were in pristine condition on the 18th of November. I have a photo to prove it. That ding is certainly not in evidence.

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:53 pm
by Renegadenemo
Bill, Point taken, but both shoes were in pristine condition on the 18th of November. I have a photo to prove it. That ding is certainly not in evidence.
I'm not saying it isn't crash damage, it's as likely as anything and if the photos prove it then there's another mystery solved. It's not easy to see what might have hit it though because by the time that wedge landed on the water the centre hull was well over on its left hand side so there was only the flat underside presented to that sponson.
Incidentally, I was asked yesterday about the fact that the hull landed on its side as it takes a bit of detective work to see it in the available images. Probably the best shot is the film taken from behind in ATL but as a piece of visual evidence this is as good an example as any.
P140.JPG
Notice how the left-hand throat (as you sit in the boat) of the air intakes has been torn wide open. That one got a big gulp of water as the boat fell in. The opposite one is squashed shut as the boat rolled over and presented the outer skin of the intake structure to the water.
Study the damage for a moment and (unless you're hard of understanding) it's obvious that the intakes have been dealt a massive blow from left to right (as you look at it in the pic). The reality is that she landed on the flat side of her nose, snapped at F-17 then F-15 then took a mouthful of water up her LH throat that stalled her progress and flipped her over so the outside of her RH throat got squashed inwards.

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:09 pm
by sheppane
Renegadenemo wrote:
Bill, Point taken, but both shoes were in pristine condition on the 18th of November. I have a photo to prove it. That ding is certainly not in evidence.
I'm not saying it isn't crash damage, it's as likely as anything and if the photos prove it then there's another mystery solved. It's not easy to see what might have hit it though because by the time that wedge landed on the water the centre hull was well over on its left hand side so there was only the flat underside presented to that sponson.
Incidentally, I was asked yesterday about the fact that the hull landed on its side as it takes a bit of detective work to see it in the available images. Probably the best shot is the film taken from behind in ATL but as a piece of visual evidence this is as good an example as any.
P140.JPG
Notice how the left-hand throat (as you sit in the boat) of the air intakes has been torn wide open. That one got a big gulp of water as the boat fell in. The opposite one is squashed shut as the boat rolled over and presented the outer skin of the intake structure to the water.
Study the damage for a moment and (unless you're hard of understanding) it's obvious that the intakes have been dealt a massive blow from left to right (as you look at it in the pic). The reality is that she landed on the flat side of her nose, snapped at F-17 then F-15 then took a mouthful of water up her LH throat that stalled her progress and flipped her over so the outside of her RH throat got squashed inwards.
Bill,

That's an excellent description and I fully understand the sequence of events. Its an ugly image though ... as I guess the one of the sponsons is. It's why I never wanted to see K7 until you did the dry build.

Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:40 am
by Renegadenemo
While we're on the subject it's worth mentioning too that the left hand cockpit side skins were all crushed flat against the structure, while the right hand ones were blown outwards (fairly sure I have that right- Bill?)
Yes, the pic's are all there in the diary archive for anyone who can be bothered to trawl through it but that's essentially what happened, which is why we have so much original material down that side and bits missing from the other. Another amazing effect of the speed and severity of the roll is the fact that the left-hand cockpit frame forward of F-17 separated completely, having failed forward of the F-17 vertical frame tube, without penetrating the water surface at all and passed completely under the rolling cockpit to be spat out the right-hand side and go airborne again for another 130m until you see it splash down here in the foreground. Remember that in this shot, K7 has stopped and is facing almost back down the lake.
By the way - the splash in the middle is the steering box and column, RH cockpit rail, instrument panel crossmember, F-18 and F-20 bulkheads all rolled in a ball and subsequently lifted by the RN dive team in 67.
Splashes.jpg
By the way, I've lost count of the number of knowledgeable individuals who tell me with absolute conviction that what you see hitting the water here is actually the front spar. I wouldn't mind so much if is wasn't public knowledge that we'd taken a boat bristling with sonar, ROV and diving technology and really found these items and dragged them back into daylight and now have them lying about our workshop.
It's NOT the spar, OK?