Blue Bird K4

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ted.walsh
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Re: Blue Bird K4

Post by ted.walsh » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:54 am

:roll: you've rebuilt worse...... :D

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Blue Bird K4

Post by Renegadenemo » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:15 am

Give us the wrecked bits and we'll piece her back together.

I'd love to run a new project to recreate one of those long lost boats to the last nut and bolt but I reckon I've worn the guys and girls into the ground with the big blue one. Once is enough, it seems, and that's fair. We've given K7 our all for many years and at the end of the day how many once in a lifetime, amazing and totally fulfilling projects is enough for one lifetime?
Just need Coniston to get sorted and we can tick the last of the boxes lined up for us in 2002 and the whole team can retire in the knowledge that they did an incredible thing.
After Dumbelyung, Lake Mead and wherever else, of course... :D
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler

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ted.walsh
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Re: Blue Bird K4

Post by ted.walsh » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:20 am

you could always attempt a 2 seat BBO replica. we could all go for a ride then? ;)

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Blue Bird K4

Post by Renegadenemo » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:28 am

you could always attempt a 2 seat BBO replica. we could all go for a ride then? ;)
Or we could make a new Miss England II thingamabob with a couple of spare seats and you could blast people up and down Windermere.

Except you probably couldn't and we'd have to do that in the land of common sense too...
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler

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ted.walsh
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Re: Blue Bird K4

Post by ted.walsh » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:00 am

ummmmm, t'would be nice to have a couple of griffs at full chat behind ones ear :mrgreen:

Ernie Lazenby
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Re: Blue Bird K4

Post by Ernie Lazenby » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:03 pm

Renegadenemo wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:28 am
you could always attempt a 2 seat BBO replica. we could all go for a ride then? ;)
Or we could make a new Miss England II thingamabob with a couple of spare seats and you could blast people up and down Windermere.

Except you probably couldn't and we'd have to do that in the land of common sense too...

Miss England 11 had seating for three across the boat forward of the twin engines. Get one built and you have the crew, Ted drives it with Bill and Richie as the mechanics needed to run it.

Techteam
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Re: Blue Bird K4

Post by Techteam » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:21 pm

Would of thought you could use your museum types death ray and get them to give up Miss Britain 111. More your sort of materials, is a Napier more available ?? Now a nicely restored and running Miss Britain 111 would surely be worth it to them for a few demo runs a year.

JfromJAGs
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Re: Blue Bird K4

Post by JfromJAGs » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:46 pm

Back to K4: basically the boat looks like a roundnose hydroplane - if the motor and thus the CoG would be a lot more forward. So was K4 already a prop rider (surface piercing prop) or was it still a conventional speed boat with a submerged prop? Due to the motor position and no rooster seen in the video footage, I would think the latter.

Comparing K3 or K4 with K7, to me K3 and K4 were rather conventional boat designs of their time, while K7 was something radically new. As far as I know K7 had the first outrigger sponsons and was ahead of its time by 50 years. Around 2005 the first outrigged sponson style hydro boats started to compete in Top Fuel Hydro drag races. US hydroplanes are still fullbody boats (might be required by rules though).

I'm wondering if the Norris brothers had contacts to the tethered model boat community. As far as I can trace it, they were the first to introduce streamlined bodies and outrigged sponsons - back in 1949/50.

Ernie Lazenby
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Re: Blue Bird K4

Post by Ernie Lazenby » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:32 pm

K4 was a three point hydroplane. Originally it planed with the bottom of the transom on the water(as designed). It was not a prop rider as such. Donald converted it to a prop rider after he had the jet engine removed.(his fathers experiment) Piston engine was refitted but moved forward. I think the boat looked at its best in its very original form.

John Cobbs Crusader was a three point hydroplane with outrigger sponsons but at the back, a revolutionary boat much ahead of its time. This boat pre dated K7's design and may have influenced the Norris brothers. Its interesting that the boat that still holds the WWSR does not have outrigger sponsons nor does the latest design by Ken Warby and his team.

BTW prop riding was not invented it was discovered by accident. An engineer could not work out why the engine in a race boat was overheating despite water cooling. He looked over the side and noticed that the prop was trying to get out of the water thus lifting the water pick up clear of the water. He also noticed the engine speed increased. I think the boat was called Hurricane. (age is affecting my memory I am afraid)

JfromJAGs
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Re: Blue Bird K4

Post by JfromJAGs » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:20 pm

Crusader is what's known today as a Canard. Whenever people tried to run such designs they got either injured or killed, eg Miss Circus Circus or Taylor's Discovery II. Its the instable version of a triangle.

With limited resources and trying to build a boat mainly from wood a design like Taylors Hustler or the Warby boats are the best option. These boats are flying in ground effect, lifted by compressed air underneeth the flat hull, the small sponsons are supposed to fly at speed. As long as these boats fly parallel they do that pretty stable. How long are these boats? 8-10m? Scaling these boats down to 1/10th scale they would need to do about 100mph. Which I consider a challenge.

Model outriggers (forwarded sponsons) in that size (or usually a bit streched for even more stability) reach about twice that speed. Not sure how to build such boats in real size though. You won't do that in your backyard.

Anyway, to me such outrigger designs, like K7, are the way to go.

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