How many record breakers are in running order?

f1steveuk
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:01 pm
Location: Belves France and Brighton UK

Re: How many record breakers are in running order?

Post by f1steveuk » Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:33 pm

I think "Polo's" answer hits the nail on the head. There's a massive difference between existing and running! There can't be a lot needed to be done to the '35 Blue Bird, but the best you could do is run it with a Type 65 Griffon, so why bother.

The 350 HP Sunbeam engine, although based very loosely on the Manitou is unique, so that's a major bummer. Babs for the same reason isn't "Original", as she now runs a tank Liberty as opposed to a aero Liberty (another rod through the block senario!)

So you have, 1] existing and 100% original, 2] existing and partially original, 3] 100% original and running or 4] partially original and running. (sub headings to 1 and 2 "possibility to run)



I can't think of one under heading 3 at all!!
Steve Holter, UK and France, and sometimes reality....................

User avatar
sheppane
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:03 am
Location: Chiswick, West London and Penrith, Cumbria.
Contact:

Re: How many record breakers are in running order?

Post by sheppane » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:12 pm

f1steveuk wrote:I can't think of one under heading 3 at all!!
Maybe Seagrave's 1926 Sunbeam. I think everything is original in that apart from the blower casing.
In fact Its as fast now as it was in 26. It sounds wonderful as well.

N
'When you go down into the arena, you know that sometimes, you're likely to get your nose punched. You do it with your eyes open. You take the risks'

Donald Campbell, Bluebird and The Final Record Attempt. http://www.bluebirdk7.com

User avatar
Mike Bull
Posts: 4386
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:57 pm

Re: How many record breakers are in running order?

Post by Mike Bull » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:31 pm

I suppose in terms of having been pulled to a stop and switched off, the two Thrust cars must be about as 'original' as it's possible to be? Though running either would be...well, interesting!

User avatar
mtskull
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:32 pm
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: How many record breakers are in running order?

Post by mtskull » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:45 pm

f1steveuk wrote:There can't be a lot needed to be done to the '35 Blue Bird, but the best you could do is run it with a Type 65 Griffon, so why bother.
Isn't that a bit like asking: "why bother running K7 because the best you could do is run it with an 800 series Orpheus" ? :?
Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals.

f1steveuk
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:01 pm
Location: Belves France and Brighton UK

Re: How many record breakers are in running order?

Post by f1steveuk » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:40 pm

Well in all fairness K7 will have a Orpheus, but a Griffin isn't really close to an R, it would be a bit like like getting Jenson's McLaren and replacing the Mercedes engine with a Rover V8, it would go, but it's a distance away from what it really should be. Having said that I'd much rather see the things move than rot away! That's why in my tenure at Filching, we decided that as we had a Meteor we'd put the thing in. The installation Ken Pope did had a wooden sub assembly that can be removed, so once running, we'd get sponsorship and that would finance a tool kit and rebuild for R37.

To put a Griffin in the '35 car would meaning making changes to the actual car, and my point was, why mess with original material, a point I made badly (been a long day!)

Is that Segrave's Tiger? I thought that had had a major restoration in the 60s?

The trouble with these types of machine is the "grandmother's broom" scenario, because by their nature, thy are constantly changed anyway.
Steve Holter, UK and France, and sometimes reality....................

User avatar
sheppane
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:03 am
Location: Chiswick, West London and Penrith, Cumbria.
Contact:

Re: How many record breakers are in running order?

Post by sheppane » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:37 pm

f1steveuk wrote: Is that Segrave's Tiger? I thought that had had a major restoration in the 60s?

The trouble with these types of machine is the "grandmother's broom" scenario, because by their nature, thy are constantly changed anyway.
You're probably correct Steve, I think it was much modified post Segrave's 1926 outing at Southport. It makes a lovely noise though.

Neil
'When you go down into the arena, you know that sometimes, you're likely to get your nose punched. You do it with your eyes open. You take the risks'

Donald Campbell, Bluebird and The Final Record Attempt. http://www.bluebirdk7.com

Stuart Baker
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:56 pm

Re: How many record breakers are in running order?

Post by Stuart Baker » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:47 pm

Hey Neil,

Just spotted the reflection in the vertical stabiliser on your profile picture. Is that who I think it is?

S

User avatar
sheppane
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:03 am
Location: Chiswick, West London and Penrith, Cumbria.
Contact:

Re: How many record breakers are in running order?

Post by sheppane » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:26 am

Stuart Baker wrote:Hey Neil,

Just spotted the reflection in the vertical stabiliser on your profile picture. Is that who I think it is?

S
It is indeed DC. A section of Carl Rogerson's excellent image from the 11th December 66
'When you go down into the arena, you know that sometimes, you're likely to get your nose punched. You do it with your eyes open. You take the risks'

Donald Campbell, Bluebird and The Final Record Attempt. http://www.bluebirdk7.com

User avatar
mtskull
Posts: 580
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:32 pm
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: How many record breakers are in running order?

Post by mtskull » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:54 am

f1steveuk wrote: we decided that as we had a Meteor we'd put the thing in. The installation Ken Pope did had a wooden sub assembly that can be removed, so once running, we'd get sponsorship and that would finance a tool kit and rebuild for R37.
To put a Griffin in the '35 car would meaning making changes to the actual car, and my point was, why mess with original material
Makes sense. If a Griffon would drop straight in or only require easily reversible mods then I couldn't see the harm but I quite agree that you wouldn't want to go b*ggering about with original material only to finish up with something even less authentic.
Here's hoping that R37 can be rebuilt and/or replicated.... ;)
Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals.

f1steveuk
Posts: 739
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:01 pm
Location: Belves France and Brighton UK

Re: How many record breakers are in running order?

Post by f1steveuk » Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:05 pm

Most people will tell you, "don't get Holter started on the R Type"!!!!

So few units built (22 or 24), one, unique tool kit (now missing), many many, hand made, one off parts, and R37 was badly shot blasted at least twice. It deserves a rebuild, but as to running it, it could be a bugger to get it to run for an hour sometimes. I know the very first prototype Griffin was actually R41 (the last unit built from memory), but I suspect by the time it went into production, it had little in common with the R, although maybe Mike from his aero' interests knows better?

I can cope with Babs for example, although why another aero' liberty wasn't found escapes me (cost?), as it looks original, has as much of the original in it as possible, and is, original spec', but if for example a Manitou was put in the 350HP, then it seems like doing it for the sake of it. I suspect that's what scuppered the Golden Apple project, to rebuild the Golden Arrow to running condition. Why bung any old Napier Lion into it, and why add to it's 18 or so, only, miles on the clock?

I suppose with LSR/WSR vehicles it's a mute point, why run them at 50 to 100, when they were designed for 400 to 500, and a matter of personal opinion.

I have a list somewhere of all record breakers still known to exist, I'd guess it wouldn't ake long to work out how many are original, and how many run.
Steve Holter, UK and France, and sometimes reality....................

Post Reply