Off the Rails - Train Stuff

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mtskull
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Re: Other Speed Record Breakers Are Available!

Post by mtskull » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:39 pm

Piston Broke wrote:In case anybody missed it, It's 75 years today since Mallard got the record for steam locomotives which still stands

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23158002
Not wishing to denigrate this magnificent locomotive but I have always felt that it was cheating a bit to claim a transient peak speed, observed whilst travelling downhill, as a new record when the previous (German-held) record was only 1.5 mph slower but was sustained for a considerable distance on the level.
Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals.

Terminator
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Re: Other Speed Record Breakers Are Available!

Post by Terminator » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:53 pm

mtskull wrote:
Piston Broke wrote:In case anybody missed it, It's 75 years today since Mallard got the record for steam locomotives which still stands

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23158002
Not wishing to denigrate this magnificent locomotive but I have always felt that it was cheating a bit to claim a transient peak speed, observed whilst travelling downhill, as a new record when the previous (German-held) record was only 1.5 mph slower but was sustained for a considerable distance on the level.
Then don't! Simple's :D
Novie
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Dangermouse
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Re: Off the Rails

Post by Dangermouse » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:18 pm

Also the fact that Mallard melted the bearing on her inner con rod while trying to do so... I have read that the reason for it being such a brief peak speed was that the crew smelled the bearing going and jammed the regulator wide open for a few seconds before closing it.

The one I'd love to conclusively clear up is whether City of Truro managed to hit the ton. I know there's plenty of evidence against but machinery is often capable of far more than the design spec if you get just the right match of driver and engine. However, seeing as the only way of doing that would be if time travel is invented (and I think the Edwardian passengers might be rather alarmed by a fire-breathing flying steam train cruising alongside them) it's likely to remain a mystery!
Matt in Mid Wales

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mtskull
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Re: Off the Rails

Post by mtskull » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:56 am

Mike Bull wrote: It would be interesting to know the percentage of LOOT (Loss Of Original Train); I don't know anything about it at all, is it already one of those where 'The Flying Scotsman' has had two new boilers and five new sets of wheels etc?
Ahem. (Puts on nasal pedantic train-spotter type voice):
"I think you will find the Loss Of Original Train to be 100%, as the term "train" refers to the vehicles drawn by the locomotive, rather than the locomotive itself". :geek:

OK, in seriousness: As regards Loss Of Original Locomotive, it all depends on when you draw your baseline. If you have ever glanced at any of the specialist steam railway magazines you will be aware that, ever since it entered preservation, there has been ongoing controversy along the lines of: "she never ran in NE/LNER/BR days with that combination of tender/smoke deflectors/chimney/whistle, whilst painted Apple Green/Brunswick Green/Black".
The fact of the matter is that Flying Scotsman, in common with many other locomotives (and a certain hydroplane...), underwent a continuous process of development and modification almost from the day it entered service. Add to this the fact that, during a 40 year service life, parts wore out and were replaced; also that major components such as boilers, wheelsets, motion and tenders were routinely swapped around when locomotives underwent heavy overhaul.
It is probably true to say that it would be possible to restore Flying Scotsman to the condition it was in at the end of its BR service without a vast amount of loss of the fabric of the locomotive (as it stood at that time). At the other end of the spectrum, if you wanted to represent the loco as it left the works when new, you might as well go the whole hog and build a new one; you wouldn't end up with much less original fabric. (As has already been stated, that option would probably cost less than the current bill for Flying Scotsman's restoration).
Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals.

conistoncollie
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Mallard - World steam speed record holder

Post by conistoncollie » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:20 am

There is another big blue world speed record holder named after a bird.
I am involved in the project to get a bronze statue of Sir Nigel Gresley erected at King's Cross. Sir Nigel was one of Britain's finest and most innovative engineers, he designed the world steam locomotive speed record holder - MALLARD (126mph). When he wasn't designing cutting edge, innovative machinery, he relaxed by feeding the ducks and he had a great love of them. It is no coincidence this particular world record breaker is named after one.
The superb new bronze statue featured a beautifully sculpted mallard at his feet but now the powers that be want the duck removed. The significance of the duck is not - it seems - recognised or appreciated by the powers that be.

Sign the petition to reinstate it at
https://www.change.org/p/the-gresley-so ... el-gresley

read more at
www.gresleyduck.org

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mtskull
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Re: Mallard - World steam speed record holder

Post by mtskull » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:45 am

conistoncollie wrote: The significance of the duck is not - it seems - recognised or appreciated by the powers that be.
Maybe the powers that be appreciate that Sir Nigel Gresley's greatness stems from more significant, yet less widely recognised achievements than designing a locomotive that momentarily went faster than it was designed to.
What would you have liked to have seen incorporated into the statue if the record had been set by "Union of South Africa" or "Sir Ralph Wedgwood"?
Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals.

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Off the Rails - Train Stuff

Post by Renegadenemo » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:33 am

Can't see as it makes any difference - duck or no duck. Personally I'd leave the duck alone as it's the most interesting part of the statue so far as the casual observer is concerned.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

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quicksilver-wsr
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Re: Off the Rails - Train Stuff

Post by quicksilver-wsr » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:50 am

I'm not a loco buff, but I am continually inspired by the efforts and achievements of the brave bands who toil to resurrect and maintain key elements of our locomotive history. Many of those projects are every bit as difficult to pull off as an absolute speed-record success, but with way less recognition ever accorded to the "victors".

I'm sorry but I don't go with the LOOF thing at all. If an item is a working piece of machinery, parts will deteriorate sooner or later and will have to be replaced. The only way to avoid this is not to run, preserve in aspic - and then the thugs will cry "Dead Metal!"

Many WW2 aircraft, to take those as an example, were built in the certain knowledge that their lifespan would be brief. No-one who built them could imagine that some of these machines would still be flying 75 years later, and expected to carry on in flying order indefinitely for future generations to enjoy. Of course, parts have been successively replaced, to the point where very often, little remains of the original. Pragmatism, practicality - leave alone common sense and statutory airworthiness requirements - would have it no other way.

I don't know much about the trials and tribulations surrounding the Flying Scotsman as a specific case (it doesn't sufficiently interest me), but as a general principle it's inevitable that the longer a piece of machinery is worked into the ground, the more parts will have - progressively - to be replaced.

LOOF = longer life. Even when it comes to hip and knee replacements!

Nigel

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Re: Off the Rails - Train Stuff

Post by quicksilver-wsr » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:39 am

Got to add, while I'm on here, that there was once a Quicksilver locomotive - a Gresley A4 built in 1935 and withdrawn from service 1963, pictured here in model form ...
A4 Quicksilver.jpg
Yay!

We have rediscovered what remains of it and are rebuilding to full running order, but due to extensive LOOF, once completed, it will look like a boat.

Nigel
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rob565uk
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Re: Off the Rails - Train Stuff

Post by rob565uk » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:27 pm

I think your Fireman's shovel will be but a blur as he feeds the boiler with best steaming coal at 400 mph :-)

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