Reading all this with interest as wasnt fully aware of the politics but got interested as DELIGHTED that you have chosen Bute for the training. A fantastic event for a small Island that welcomes people and events as peoples business etc rely on visitors. Something that appears to have been forgotten elsewhere ??
Its obvious that its a real shame that the proving trials on Coniston are looking in doubt , the last thing anyone in their right minds would want . I am sure you will have no problem in finding a replacement loch ( notice I said "loch" there !!) but Coniston is the place it should be .
Would it be worth getting someone "neutral" involved in a sort of mediation or would that make things worse ???? Just a thought
Return to the Water
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Renegadenemo
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Re: Return to the Water
There's nothing to mediate as there's no disagreement. Cumbria has done nothing to facilitate the proving trial even though they've had the same ten years that we've spent building a boat, and show no sign of changing their attitude now. But that's OK with us just so long as they don't attempt to shift any blame when people ask the obvious questions. Our Malcolm Op's is as neutral as can be and has been attempting to work with them on this since 2008 but without the effort from Cumbria it's just impossible.Would it be worth getting someone "neutral" involved in a sort of mediation or would that make things worse ???? Just a thought
Scotland, on the other hand - what a cracking bunch. Can't wait to get up there amongst all that positivity.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...
"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.
'It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.' W.C. Fields.
"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.
'It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.' W.C. Fields.
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Renegadenemo
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Re: Return to the Water
Here's an interesting read - dated 8th March I found it on the Stonybridge website. No one thought to mail us a copy and we happened across it because we monitor what they have to say while they seem to completely ignore everything we do.
Following attendance at the December 2015 meeting of Coniston Parish Council (CPC) by a member
of the Bluebird Project (BBP) it was proposed by CPC that a group be should be convened to make
arrangements for the proving trials at a date to be confirmed. The group was made up of members
of CPC, Coniston Business Forum, Lake District National Park Authority (LDNPA) representatives,
along with members of BBP and other representatives from the community.
From the outset the Bluebird Heritage Festival Group (BHFG) has been looking to make the proving
trials a significant event with the aim of fostering interest in Bluebird and the Campbell story,
providing a high class spectator experience whilst managing the event to create as little disruption as
possible to the residents of Coniston and the South Lakeland area. In considering suitable dates the
opportunity to extend the “shoulder” season (Spring and Autumn) was clearly understood at the
beginning of discussions with BBP, with the caveat from BBP that they did not believe that activity
within the winter months would be appropriate.
In saying that, given that there was no date available for the return of Bluebird to Coniston, the
group’s main focus was to establish the requirements for running an event which was scheduled to
take place over 2 weeks, creating the right contacts within and outside the BHFG, working towards
securing sponsorship, car parking provision, traffic management and proposed events for visitors
that could be held in the village when the proving trials were not taking place.
Recently a Limited Company was formed to act as a bona fide vehicle to work under, this would deal
with such matters as third party liability insurance and to aid with discussions with outside
organisations and sponsors. If any surplus income was generated this would be passed on to good
causes within the area via a transparent process. The meetings have been held regularly, however
notes have not been circulated publicly. This was a conscious decision to allow facts to be circulated
as and when available and appropriate, rather than speculative, incomplete or incorrect information.
Until late November 2017 a date was never available to work to, although the LDNPA has stated that
they did not see the high season as a workable option given the existing pressures on the area with
regard to accommodation, traffic etc - both on the roads, other lake users and the overall
management of the event. The village businesses could also cater better for the Bluebird related
visitors during low-mid season periods rather than at the height of the visitor season.
The overall view of CPC is that a 2 week festival is both welcome and manageable but it needs to be
when the village is able to cope with the influx of extra visitors. The LDNPA stance was that proving
trials should only take place during weekdays and out of school holidays. The BHFG continues to try
to mediate in this regard believing that weekends should be included and a calendar period be
established that allowed some school holiday dates to be considered.
CPC and the BHFG continues to work with both BBP and LDNPA to try to ensure that the formal
proving trials can be held as part of a Bluebird Heritage Festival on Coniston Water at a time of year
that suits Coniston as a village, the LDNPA and the operational requirements of BBP.
A vast amount of work was undertaken 10 years ago to have the Coniston byelaws amended to
enable the proving trials to take place on Coniston Water. This was done by representatives of the
BBP negotiating with the LDNPA, it would be very disappointing if this was all wasted. The amended
byelaws for Coniston stated permission for the proving trial would be granted “having regard, inter
alia, to public health and safety requirements, the timing of the event and environmental
considerations”. We hope that the BBP will accept our open invitation to conduct the proving trials
on the lake given that Coniston Water is uniquely linked with Bluebird and Donald Campbell.
We, as a village, look forward to welcoming Bluebird home.
Now I sincerely hope I don't detect a hint of trying to suggest things have been held up for the lack of a 'when' because they have no idea 'when. next their roads and bridges will be swept away by flash floods, yet they have a plan. Nor do they know 'when' next someone will get stranded up a mountain or, indeed, fall off one, but the mountain rescue people have a plan for that too.
'...given that there was no date available for the return of Bluebird to Coniston, the
group’s main focus was to establish the requirements for running an event which was scheduled to
take place over 2 weeks, creating the right contacts within and outside the BHFG, working towards
securing sponsorship, car parking provision, traffic management and proposed events for visitors
that could be held in the village when the proving trials were not taking place'.
Wonder if all those things are in order then. Ten years to sort it so all that stuff should be nailed to the floor - can't wait to be blown away by the thoroughness of the planning and to see what's in place.
In considering suitable dates the
opportunity to extend the “shoulder” season (Spring and Autumn) was clearly understood at the
beginning of discussions with BBP, with the caveat from BBP that they did not believe that activity
within the winter months would be appropriate.
In our original planning document dated June 2008 we made it clear that the trials needed the best chance of good weather and that the trials had to be accessible to all ages. So if we're to believe all this spring and autumn stuff that clearly increases the need to ensure that the kids are out of school due to the increased risk of down time due to weather. Truth is, we don't care what happens to the 'shoulder' seasons and never did and we made that clear. What we care about and have always made clear is that we have good weather, long days and a time when everyone can come for a look. This extending the 'shoulder' seasons is a short-sighted effort to fill hotels and bars when they'd otherwise be empty with no view of the bigger picture.
We only do the bigger picture - sorry.
In the absence of something more proactive and positive the time is looming when the BBP publicly announces that we're going to scrap any attempt to run on Coniston plan the proving trials for an alternate venue with new partners. It's theirs to lose...
Following attendance at the December 2015 meeting of Coniston Parish Council (CPC) by a member
of the Bluebird Project (BBP) it was proposed by CPC that a group be should be convened to make
arrangements for the proving trials at a date to be confirmed. The group was made up of members
of CPC, Coniston Business Forum, Lake District National Park Authority (LDNPA) representatives,
along with members of BBP and other representatives from the community.
From the outset the Bluebird Heritage Festival Group (BHFG) has been looking to make the proving
trials a significant event with the aim of fostering interest in Bluebird and the Campbell story,
providing a high class spectator experience whilst managing the event to create as little disruption as
possible to the residents of Coniston and the South Lakeland area. In considering suitable dates the
opportunity to extend the “shoulder” season (Spring and Autumn) was clearly understood at the
beginning of discussions with BBP, with the caveat from BBP that they did not believe that activity
within the winter months would be appropriate.
In saying that, given that there was no date available for the return of Bluebird to Coniston, the
group’s main focus was to establish the requirements for running an event which was scheduled to
take place over 2 weeks, creating the right contacts within and outside the BHFG, working towards
securing sponsorship, car parking provision, traffic management and proposed events for visitors
that could be held in the village when the proving trials were not taking place.
Recently a Limited Company was formed to act as a bona fide vehicle to work under, this would deal
with such matters as third party liability insurance and to aid with discussions with outside
organisations and sponsors. If any surplus income was generated this would be passed on to good
causes within the area via a transparent process. The meetings have been held regularly, however
notes have not been circulated publicly. This was a conscious decision to allow facts to be circulated
as and when available and appropriate, rather than speculative, incomplete or incorrect information.
Until late November 2017 a date was never available to work to, although the LDNPA has stated that
they did not see the high season as a workable option given the existing pressures on the area with
regard to accommodation, traffic etc - both on the roads, other lake users and the overall
management of the event. The village businesses could also cater better for the Bluebird related
visitors during low-mid season periods rather than at the height of the visitor season.
The overall view of CPC is that a 2 week festival is both welcome and manageable but it needs to be
when the village is able to cope with the influx of extra visitors. The LDNPA stance was that proving
trials should only take place during weekdays and out of school holidays. The BHFG continues to try
to mediate in this regard believing that weekends should be included and a calendar period be
established that allowed some school holiday dates to be considered.
CPC and the BHFG continues to work with both BBP and LDNPA to try to ensure that the formal
proving trials can be held as part of a Bluebird Heritage Festival on Coniston Water at a time of year
that suits Coniston as a village, the LDNPA and the operational requirements of BBP.
A vast amount of work was undertaken 10 years ago to have the Coniston byelaws amended to
enable the proving trials to take place on Coniston Water. This was done by representatives of the
BBP negotiating with the LDNPA, it would be very disappointing if this was all wasted. The amended
byelaws for Coniston stated permission for the proving trial would be granted “having regard, inter
alia, to public health and safety requirements, the timing of the event and environmental
considerations”. We hope that the BBP will accept our open invitation to conduct the proving trials
on the lake given that Coniston Water is uniquely linked with Bluebird and Donald Campbell.
We, as a village, look forward to welcoming Bluebird home.
Now I sincerely hope I don't detect a hint of trying to suggest things have been held up for the lack of a 'when' because they have no idea 'when. next their roads and bridges will be swept away by flash floods, yet they have a plan. Nor do they know 'when' next someone will get stranded up a mountain or, indeed, fall off one, but the mountain rescue people have a plan for that too.
'...given that there was no date available for the return of Bluebird to Coniston, the
group’s main focus was to establish the requirements for running an event which was scheduled to
take place over 2 weeks, creating the right contacts within and outside the BHFG, working towards
securing sponsorship, car parking provision, traffic management and proposed events for visitors
that could be held in the village when the proving trials were not taking place'.
Wonder if all those things are in order then. Ten years to sort it so all that stuff should be nailed to the floor - can't wait to be blown away by the thoroughness of the planning and to see what's in place.
In considering suitable dates the
opportunity to extend the “shoulder” season (Spring and Autumn) was clearly understood at the
beginning of discussions with BBP, with the caveat from BBP that they did not believe that activity
within the winter months would be appropriate.
In our original planning document dated June 2008 we made it clear that the trials needed the best chance of good weather and that the trials had to be accessible to all ages. So if we're to believe all this spring and autumn stuff that clearly increases the need to ensure that the kids are out of school due to the increased risk of down time due to weather. Truth is, we don't care what happens to the 'shoulder' seasons and never did and we made that clear. What we care about and have always made clear is that we have good weather, long days and a time when everyone can come for a look. This extending the 'shoulder' seasons is a short-sighted effort to fill hotels and bars when they'd otherwise be empty with no view of the bigger picture.
We only do the bigger picture - sorry.
In the absence of something more proactive and positive the time is looming when the BBP publicly announces that we're going to scrap any attempt to run on Coniston plan the proving trials for an alternate venue with new partners. It's theirs to lose...
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...
"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.
'It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.' W.C. Fields.
"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.
'It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.' W.C. Fields.
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Malcolm Ops
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:09 pm
Re: Return to the Water
The Heritage Festival group in Coniston are seeking an Event Organiser, who will organise the celebratory event(s) around the Proving Trial of K7. The role will require 'collaboration' with (amongst many organisations) one named individual - Bill Smith.
Who feels strong enough to take that task on?
Who feels strong enough to take that task on?
Malcolm Ops
Derby, England
Derby, England
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Malcolm Ops
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:09 pm
Coniston Water Byelaws & Proving Trial
Following questions on the Guestbook pages of the BBP and amongst other Forum discussions I felt that a reminder of the Byelaws, which apply to Coniston Water and the potential running of K7, are given their own topic.
The Lake District Coniston Water Byelaws, 2010, set out how "power driven vessel" (which means any vessel propelled by machinery) can be navigated on the lake, which is commonly known as "Coniston Water". Byelaw 4 prohibits speeds exceeding ten miles per hour, except when exceptions are provided within the Byelaws. The Proving Trial is defined in the Byelaws as the testing and running of Bluebird K7, through Development Runs (speed limited at 100mph) and twelve Proving Runs. [As the Members of the LDNPA accepted prior to the 'sign off' by the Secretary of State, these Byelaws will remain in their 2010 wording (possibly far into the future) even after the Proving Trial of K7 has been completed on Coniston Water. The Proving Trial is singular as the Members only wanted there to be one].
The Crew Training Exercise on the Isle of Bute is a necessary precursor to the Proving Trial of K7. It does not have the same purpose as the Trial. So once the team has learnt how to crew the craft in August, it will go back to North Shields to be made ready for the Proving Trial. There is no 'get the boat wet at Bute and then put K7 into the Ruskin Museum' stage in our programme. The Bluebird Project would not have fulfilled its main objective of demonstrating the rebuild has produced the craft as it was on the early morning of 4th January.
The Byelaw for the Proving Trial will only cease to be usable once the Trial on Coniston Water has concluded - the end of proving run 12. Even if the Byelaw is not 'used' it stays in print. The Byelaws can be easily found on the LDNPA website, no link needed. This makes it possible that a future generation, perhaps enthused by other speed activity, might take K7 out on to Coniston Water, using Byelaw 7, and hold the Proving Trial as it is defined. Yes, there are a large number of inland bodies of water where K7 could be made to plane, but none will host the "Coniston Water (Byelaw 7) Proving Trial". The BBP Ops Team are sure that once the 'when' matters are sorted out in Cumbria, a safe and environmentally satisfactory World Class Proving Trial can be run as the feature event of a Bluebird Heritage Festival, ahead of the boat being homed in the Bluebird Wing of the Ruskin Museum.
The Lake District Coniston Water Byelaws, 2010, set out how "power driven vessel" (which means any vessel propelled by machinery) can be navigated on the lake, which is commonly known as "Coniston Water". Byelaw 4 prohibits speeds exceeding ten miles per hour, except when exceptions are provided within the Byelaws. The Proving Trial is defined in the Byelaws as the testing and running of Bluebird K7, through Development Runs (speed limited at 100mph) and twelve Proving Runs. [As the Members of the LDNPA accepted prior to the 'sign off' by the Secretary of State, these Byelaws will remain in their 2010 wording (possibly far into the future) even after the Proving Trial of K7 has been completed on Coniston Water. The Proving Trial is singular as the Members only wanted there to be one].
The Crew Training Exercise on the Isle of Bute is a necessary precursor to the Proving Trial of K7. It does not have the same purpose as the Trial. So once the team has learnt how to crew the craft in August, it will go back to North Shields to be made ready for the Proving Trial. There is no 'get the boat wet at Bute and then put K7 into the Ruskin Museum' stage in our programme. The Bluebird Project would not have fulfilled its main objective of demonstrating the rebuild has produced the craft as it was on the early morning of 4th January.
The Byelaw for the Proving Trial will only cease to be usable once the Trial on Coniston Water has concluded - the end of proving run 12. Even if the Byelaw is not 'used' it stays in print. The Byelaws can be easily found on the LDNPA website, no link needed. This makes it possible that a future generation, perhaps enthused by other speed activity, might take K7 out on to Coniston Water, using Byelaw 7, and hold the Proving Trial as it is defined. Yes, there are a large number of inland bodies of water where K7 could be made to plane, but none will host the "Coniston Water (Byelaw 7) Proving Trial". The BBP Ops Team are sure that once the 'when' matters are sorted out in Cumbria, a safe and environmentally satisfactory World Class Proving Trial can be run as the feature event of a Bluebird Heritage Festival, ahead of the boat being homed in the Bluebird Wing of the Ruskin Museum.
Malcolm Ops
Derby, England
Derby, England
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Renegadenemo
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Re: Return to the Water
Is that the byelaw the LDNPA kindly amended on our behalf?
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...
"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.
'It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.' W.C. Fields.
"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.
'It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.' W.C. Fields.
-
Malcolm Ops
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:09 pm
Re: Return to the Water
Yes that one, which could remain in print for decades to remind everyone!
Malcolm Ops
Derby, England
Derby, England
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Malcolm Ops
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Re: Return to the Water
In these days of political correctness and accuracy of quotes .......... the LDNPA 'facilitated' the rewriting.
The 'new' Byelaw 7 could be in print until 2045, the lifespan of the previous document.
The 'new' Byelaw 7 could be in print until 2045, the lifespan of the previous document.
Malcolm Ops
Derby, England
Derby, England
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Renegadenemo
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Re: Return to the Water
So if they did that one, which one did you slave over for four years? 
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...
"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.
'It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.' W.C. Fields.
"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.
'It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.' W.C. Fields.
-
Malcolm Ops
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:09 pm
Re: Return to the Water
Clearly 'facilitate' has a number of meanings. I am just glad that Bill got the definitions and words right and the Secretary of State found that, after the consultation, they were acceptable and agreed the Byelaws as they now exist.
I see that the CPC has gone on to facebook today (22/03) with the "Bluebird Heritage Festival" statement, which is posted above in this thread (2.33am). I wonder where "months without an R in them" might have got lost, or are these the 'shoulder' periods?
I see that the CPC has gone on to facebook today (22/03) with the "Bluebird Heritage Festival" statement, which is posted above in this thread (2.33am). I wonder where "months without an R in them" might have got lost, or are these the 'shoulder' periods?
Malcolm Ops
Derby, England
Derby, England