Return to the Water

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Malcolm Ops
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Malcolm Ops » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:13 pm

Another word defined for us:

presumption
noun: presumption;
an attitude adopted in law or as a matter of policy towards an action or proposal in the absence of acceptable reasons to the contrary.
synonyms: assumption, supposition, presupposition, belief, thought, guess, expectation, judgement, surmise, conjecture, speculation, hypothesis, postulation, premise, generalization, inference, deduction, conclusion
"this presumption may be easily rebutted"

yup
Malcolm Ops

Derby, England

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midlife
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by midlife » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:42 pm

Awesome answer Barry[.]
Cheers
Wayne


.

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Renegadenemo » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:07 pm

Most probably still waiting for the official answer :roll:
Gave me a good chuckle, did that...

The answer, as I understand it, is that he went to see the chap who owned Pier Cottage at the time and said,

"I say, old boy. Would you mind awfully if I brought the old girl over and tried to see a British boat first past the magic three hundred?"

And that was it. I doubt very much that he spent forty minutes on the phone to a confused jobsworth trying to explain that, no, there will be no application and, by the way, there's no such word as 'can't'.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
If I give one hour of joy
To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

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sheppane
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by sheppane » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:08 am

Renegadenemo wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:07 pm
Most probably still waiting for the official answer :roll:
Gave me a good chuckle, did that...

The answer, as I understand it, is that he went to see the chap who owned Pier Cottage at the time and said,

"I say, old boy. Would you mind awfully if I brought the old girl over and tried to see a British boat first past the magic three hundred?"

And that was it. I doubt very much that he spent forty minutes on the phone to a confused jobsworth trying to explain that, no, there will be no application and, by the way, there's no such word as 'can't'.
DC spoke to 4 parties to get the attempt signed off. FG Riding, Clerk of the Parish Council, Arthur Wilson, owner of Pier Cottage, Norman Buckley to arrange getting the course surveyed, and Lancashire police, within whose jurisdiction Coniston lay, agreed to provide an element of security and control at Pier Cottage, with Chief Constable Eric St Johnston communicating as much to Donald personally. DC only dealt with principals.
'When you go down into the arena, you know that sometimes, you're likely to get your nose punched. You do it with your eyes open. You take the risks'

Donald Campbell, Bluebird and The Final Record Attempt. https://www.facebook.com/bluebirdk7/

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Renegadenemo » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:09 am

DC spoke to 4 parties to get the attempt signed off. FG Riding, Clerk of the Parish Council, Arthur Wilson, owner of Pier Cottage, Norman Buckley to arrange getting the course surveyed, and Lancashire police, within whose jurisdiction Coniston lay, agreed to provide an element of security and control at Pier Cottage, with Chief Constable Eric St Johnston communicating as much to Donald personally. DC only dealt with principals.
Thanks for that interesting snippet, Neil. Certainly I knew none of that. My version came from a years-old negotiation to see whether Pier Cottage wanted us. They didn't, unless we spoke via their land-agent.
Dealing with the principals is the only way as we've proven over the years, and again with the Mount Stuart Trust on Bute, where the level of help and support from the community is ramping up exponentially.

Impossible task when there's no principal to deal with, though.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
If I give one hour of joy
To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

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mtskull
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by mtskull » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:33 am

Just a rather tongue-in-cheek suggestion:

If all slse fails, how about that you just book a week at Pier Cottage caravan park?

After all, their website states: "To make the most of Coniston Water guests are welcome to bring canoes/boats........Boats are charged according to size; £2.50 -£5.50"

Keep a copy of the byelaw amendment handy and you're sorted. ;)
Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals.

conistoncollie
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by conistoncollie » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:58 am

Sounds like DC dealt with key individuals rather than committees.
Thanks for the info Neil, much appreciated.

A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured and then quietly strangled. (Sir Barnett Cocks)

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Renegadenemo » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:38 am

I said back in the day, why bother with the byelaw amendment at all because the fine for breaking the speed limit is only £20 and I'd gladly throw a couple of hundred quid into the pot to get some runs in. But then you have the bleating, save the duck brigade, etc, not to mention the fact that some Type III would undoubtedly get in the way of two and a half tons of gas turbine powered monster.

Would be good if there were actually some key people to deal with over there. Ten years swimming about in the ocean of committees (and don't get me started on the committee mentality!) with no result versus two months of dealing with key people in Scotland. No contest.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
If I give one hour of joy
To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

Malcolm Ops
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Malcolm Ops » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:58 pm

Even today I would advise against flouting any Byelaw (or indeed English law). [From my earlier posting this was my view in 2006 when there was no applicable Byelaw, except the 10mph prohibition]. I agree that someone might decide personally to spoil any 'illegal' running and keeping such things quiet in this day and age is even more difficult.

Time has moved on and the Level 2 fine could now be up to £500.00. Not a high cost for some fun on Coniston Water I agree, however the Courts may decide to impose other penalties, such as impounding the craft. That would not be much use to the Ruskin Museum and the village.

We are led to believe that an 'application' for an individual World Speed Record attempt (CW Byelaw 4) is going through the LDNPA 'Process for Coniston Water', although few details are in the public domain. What is interesting is that the operator of the craft has indicated on its website that the 'to be confirmed' dates for this bid will be from the months of 'April, May and June 2018'.
Malcolm Ops

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Return to the Water

Post by Renegadenemo » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:57 pm

We are led to believe that an 'application' for an individual World Speed Record attempt (CW Byelaw 4) is going through the LDNPA 'Process for Coniston Water', although few details are in the public domain. What is interesting is that the operator of the craft has indicated on its website that the 'to be confirmed' dates for this bid will be from the months of 'April, May and June 2018'.
I'm told that that application has been on the desk at bureaucracy central for four months already but it might be signed off next month. as I explained to the bureaucrat who told me this - pretty poor performance compared to the two months it took to get sign-off in Scotland for August when every school kid in the UK can come and be inspired.

What's so amazing (though not surprising) is the moving of the goalposts. They told us in 2008 that they 'wanted' this when we told them in our initial planning document that we'd be doing it in good weather for all ages and now they expect us to prepare some stupid application after they faked up the documentation to basically say we're not going to get what we're supposed to apply for in the first place. It's the HLF all over again.

It's becoming slightly entertaining now. If they don't grow a pair soon we'll take the proving trial somewhere else and they can explain themselves until the end of time. :lol:
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

I have wrought my simple plan
If I give one hour of joy
To the boy who’s half a man,
Or the man who’s half a boy.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

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