Donald Campbell's restored Bluebird in museum home row

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ace_chris
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Re: Donald Campbell's restored Bluebird in museum home row

Post by ace_chris » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:02 pm

Could it be possible that the maximum safe speed for Bluebird k7 to safely travel before becoming airborn had previously been miscalculated by the Norris bros etc? I hear 350 referrered to as the uppermost safe design speed, but if it was actually lower around the lower 300s then it was never going to end well. How much of a factor did the rear fin from the gnat figure in it all too?

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Donald Campbell's restored Bluebird in museum home row

Post by Renegadenemo » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:04 pm

It wasn't designed to go that fast - 250 would be closer, though as the speeds went up more study was devoted to what went on up there. She was pretty much maxed out at 330 with the Orph'. The fin gave fair stability in yaw but it's very intolerant of any cross-wind component. CFD studies give the max tolerable pitch angle at about 5 degrees around 300mph but, interestingly, disprove the theory that the inlets lift the front of the boat when the engine spools down - they only make a shedload of drag. The CFD studies also prove that the max lift never exceeds the mass of the craft in the zero trim condition so the theory of floating in ground effect doesn't work at all unless another explanation is offered.

The weight offset question makes me smile now as it did back in the day. Beginning at the cockpit you have the steering fulcrum, the radio and its battery. The steering rod extends all the way to the transom to the rudder and its bearing tube, which all together weighs double what the fin on the opposite side does. Then there's the swirl pot and LP pump plus a gallon of fuel and its associated pipework leading down the aux tank, with another LP pump and two thirds of its total volume on the left also filled with fuel. All the electrics run down that side as well as the entire hydraulic system and its reservoir and hoses plus contents. Aft of that is a heavy pair of fire suppression bottles with associated plumbing.
And down the right hand side... nothing.
If you put all that stuff on a pallet you'd need a forklift to pick it up and it's all rigged two feet from the centreline. The middle of the sponsons are only four feet from the centreline. Then you pick the boat up with a crane and guess what - she all falls over to the left. Surprise surprise.
But, hey - didn't Tony James say this was impossible? That'd be that then...

Next discussion - engine torque reaction as it's still being ignored. Who wants to go first?
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler

JohnTheBikeMan
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Re: Donald Campbell's restored Bluebird in museum home row

Post by JohnTheBikeMan » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:52 pm

Bill (if I may be so familiar?). Remind me NEVER to get in an argument with you...!
I am the one who guided you this far
All you know and all you feel
Nobody must know my name
For nobody would understand
And you kill what you feel...

Healey nut
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Re: Donald Campbell's restored Bluebird in museum home row

Post by Healey nut » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:02 am

I really dont get all this keyboard commando rehashing of the past and facts and figures and scientific analysis and guys with slide rules saying “well it crashed because “
The facts are this .
On Jan 4th 1967 Bluebird flipped over and sank and Donald Campbell was killed .
Since then the BBP team raised the wreck and DCs body and have restored the boat to its former glory and have run and tested same at speed on Loch Fad . A tremendous achievement.
I dont think for a second that the BBP team will attempt to run at anywhere close to 300mph . They have way to much time and energy invested to see it wrecked again and they realize the historic significance that K7 has and they want to keep that for future generations to see hear and enjoy for many years to come .Be that as a static museum exhibit or a mobile moving running breathing living exhibit . I and I am sure many others would prefer the latter .
Trying to determine why it flipped is like trying to determine who killed JFK or where is Jimmy Hoffa its all just speculation .
Can we all not just celebrate the rebirth of Bluebird and its future and leave the speculation and cat fighting in the past and accept that it was all just a tragic accident and be done with it .
Thats not an oil leak , its my patent pending Old British Sports Car rustproofing system . :mrgreen:

wbjohn
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Re: Donald Campbell's restored Bluebird in museum home row

Post by wbjohn » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:14 am

Healey nut - re your above comment, Well said, thank you......

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Donald Campbell's restored Bluebird in museum home row

Post by Renegadenemo » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:45 am

Healey nut - re your above comment, Well said, thank you......
Ahh - our dear friend John, the calm voice of reason, as ever. See what Hell breaks loose when you're away...

And, Healey Nut - you are absolutely correct. I really ought to be more of a grownup than to let old arguments needle me. Note to self... But then I was the first ever winner of the BBP Bell-end award and you don't get that for being ordinary so, apologies all round - even to you, Mr Mitchell, despite our differences.
These have been terribly stressful times for me for reasons that have no place here and shouldn't have ever manifested themselves here so I'm sorry for any offence caused.

Now then - we have to get our favourite engine out of the hole soon as we can because all her silvered bearings are currently soaked in sulphurous fuel and there's already corrosion product on the first and second stage compressor blades. Thanks for your support, one and all.

Bill.
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler

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Renegadenemo
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Re: Donald Campbell's restored Bluebird in museum home row

Post by Renegadenemo » Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:08 am

Bill (if I may be so familiar?). Remind me NEVER to get in an argument with you...!
You may be as familiar as you want and argue all you like. Never be shy...
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

"As to reward, my profession is its own reward;" Sherlock Holmes.

'Sometimes you gotta be an S.O.B if you wanna make a dream reality' Mark Knopfler

KW Mitchell
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Re: Donald Campbell's restored Bluebird in museum home row

Post by KW Mitchell » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:59 am

Renegadenemo wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:45 am
Healey nut - re your above comment, Well said, thank you......
... so, apologies all round - even to you, Mr Mitchell, despite our differences.
These have been terribly stressful times for me for reasons that have no place here and shouldn't have ever manifested themselves here so I'm sorry for any offence caused...

Bill.
Thankyou for that, Bill; it is accepted in the spirit in which it is given.

I am sure you will agree that trying to understand what happened some 50 years ago and attempting to apply some good science to it is not incompatible with the aims - and inherent vicissitudes and frustration - of restoration and current operation of the craft. Indeed, one must surely inform the other.

To those ends, I would be very happy to contribute - even in a small way - with the skills at hand. I am sure we would not always agree, but if the arguments are rooted in good science and mutual respect then I think the outcome can only be positive.

In conclusion, might I say that none of our recent exchanges diminishes my appreciation to you and the team for inviting me as a guest to observe the Bute 'Campaign' at close quarters. The spirit and commitment of you all to solve problems so that we could all enjoy Bluebird doing what it was meant to do, chimed with what Tony has told me about those very attributes in the K7 team and their illustrious leader all those years ago.

Keith

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Richie
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Re: Donald Campbell's restored Bluebird in museum home row

Post by Richie » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:40 am

Happy days, let us all move forward together !


TO THE NEXT STEP !!


Cheers

Richie
Clarence come out ov zat tank at vonz !

JohnTheBikeMan
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Re: Donald Campbell's restored Bluebird in museum home row

Post by JohnTheBikeMan » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:18 pm

Renegadenemo wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:08 am
Bill (if I may be so familiar?). Remind me NEVER to get in an argument with you...!
You may be as familiar as you want and argue all you like. Never be shy...
Only ever from a position of strength! I've got a lot to learn yet.

In total awe of your collective 'tin bashing' skills, I'll stick to mending bicycles.
I am the one who guided you this far
All you know and all you feel
Nobody must know my name
For nobody would understand
And you kill what you feel...

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