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Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:08 pm
by Richie
A meeting to discuss a meeting ?

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:08 pm
by Jordangbr
So it would seem.

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:08 pm
by Scots Pine
I can see the logic in that. So many lines have been drawn in the sand, so much ‘stuff’ has been said or not said, that even to consider any ‘dialogue’ is a bit of a sea change.
I’d think it totally in order for the Trustees to have to consider a request to open dialogue...and as sure as a cat is a black furry beast I’d expect a rebuff.
Mibbies that’s just me being cynical - I’d be delighted to be proved wrong.

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:06 pm
by Richie
What will be, will be.

Got lots of other matters on the go presently so will happily leave that in Jordan’s capable hands.

Whether it’s paint or paint stripper, I will be standing by.

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:29 pm
by Renegadenemo
I can see the logic in that. So many lines have been drawn in the sand, so much ‘stuff’ has been said or not said, that even to consider any ‘dialogue’ is a bit of a sea change.
I’d think it totally in order for the Trustees to have to consider a request to open dialogue...and as sure as a cat is a black furry beast I’d expect a rebuff.
Mibbies that’s just me being cynical - I’d be delighted to be proved wrong.
No logic there at all that I can see. No excuse in this modern age when you can fire off a group email or a message to your WhatsApp group in moments from anywhere to say Jordan is inviting everyone to a meeting and who can be there - again, from anywhere.
As for lines in the sand and things said - there's plenty been said about BBP and me in particular but what does that have to do with being professional to progress the big picture? And what has Jordan ever done to deserve a rebuff? just more time wasted for no reason and there's certainly no logic in that.

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:41 pm
by Filtertron
It doesn't take much to organise a Zoom meeting. I've taken part in a few recently at short notice. You simply punt the participants a message telling them the time, and the login code. Everyone logs on, you have the discussion, make a decision which suits everyone, then contact the other party with an answer. It could all be sorted within a couple of days, or even hours if they wanted. The longer they drag things out, the worse it makes them look. You're all (BBP) willing and eager to get something down in writing - that's on record in the public arena. They appear to be taking the small town bureaucracy route for no good reason, other than to perhaps hold things up in the hope that you'll all lose interest, or you'll pull the boat to bits and dump it on their doorstep. If they really want to see K7 in their museum, they need to start making an effort and communicate. This stalemate will simply continue indefinitely if they don't. If the Ruskin did try to take this to court, their non-communication would in, my estimation, work against them.

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:07 am
by Renegadenemo
If they really want to see K7 in their museum, they need to start making an effort and communicate. This stalemate will simply continue indefinitely if they don't. If the Ruskin did try to take this to court, their non-communication would in, my estimation, work against them.
I always like this one. Take us to court? On what basis? What action would they bring against us? The only agreement between us is the 2013 agreement and we certainly haven't broken that one and it is surely now fully understood by everyone that the DoG, whether the 06 one or the sneaky 2019 one, is an agreement between the Campbells and the museum only and nothing to do with the BBP, so what are we going to stand accused of? Not handing over 15 years of blood sweat and tears and going home empty handed?

We, on the other hand, still have several options in that direction so this will not continue indefinitely. We have been very patient over many years and tried very hard to find resolution but enough is enough - time is up.

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:54 pm
by Filtertron
Renegadenemo wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:07 am
If they really want to see K7 in their museum, they need to start making an effort and communicate. This stalemate will simply continue indefinitely if they don't. If the Ruskin did try to take this to court, their non-communication would in, my estimation, work against them.
I always like this one. Take us to court? On what basis? What action would they bring against us? The only agreement between us is the 2013 agreement and we certainly haven't broken that one and it is surely now fully understood by everyone that the DoG, whether the 06 one or the sneaky 2019 one, is an agreement between the Campbells and the museum only and nothing to do with the BBP, so what are we going to stand accused of? Not handing over 15 years of blood sweat and tears and going home empty handed?

We, on the other hand, still have several options in that direction so this will not continue indefinitely. We have been very patient over many years and tried very hard to find resolution but enough is enough - time is up.
Didn't they partake in some ill-advised legal proceedings recently, which saw them end up 35k or so in the hole? Who knows what they'll attempt next.

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:42 am
by Renegadenemo
Didn't they partake in some ill-advised legal proceedings recently, which saw them end up 35k or so in the hole? Who knows what they'll attempt next.
Yes - Coat-Tails Wales took a fancy London Lawyer up there and promised the museum he'd have the Campbells alter the deed of gift to get rid of BBP then the lawyers would have K7 whisked off to their new wing forthwith so long as the museum paid the bills. It went horribly wrong from the get-go because we weren't a party to or signatory of either deed of gift so that made no difference to us and by the time the rest of it hit my desk it seemed to be they'd told the lawyers we'd been given a whole boat and tarted it up a bit but because it took a long time we'd decided we must own some of it.

The fact that the museum made it very clear that we were to find or make half a boat at absolutely no cost to them and that they understood long ago how this made us joint owners seemed to have fallen through the cracks. They cared not a hoot what public promises we made just so long as we carried on costing them nothing then they tried to pretend it hadn't happened once our odyssey was in sight of the finishing post but not properly informing your lawyers is like not properly informing your doctor and it unravelled rapidly.

It didn't take us long to set the record straight but in the meantime it cost them a few quid, which was naughty in itself because the Charities Commission is very strict about charities getting involved in litigation. Defending actions is bad enough but bringing one in the first place is only grudgingly permitted if every possible alternative has been exhausted. Doubtless there was some internal justification about protecting assets or whatever else trustees are obliged to do but they never once asked for their wreckage back or picked up the phone for a chat so calling for a natter, or emailing, or having a meeting or basically communicating in any meaningful way were all options that were never explored yet they soldiered on excitedly, believing that soon their boat would be safely locked in the wing and the horror story that is the BBP would be shown the door never to return.

The prolonged silence ahead of this imagined knockout blow did nothing to progress matters and their willing participation in Gina's reputational suicide on Jan 4th did nothing for the museum's reputation either, something else trustees are duty bound to protect, so it was all a catastrophic disaster.

As to what they may attempt next, well that depends on how many lessons have been learned. It's been a harsh learning curve for us too. We for so long relied on trust and promises and it's very difficult when our workshop is full of great friends and sponsors and supporters to go all formal on an organisation that is supposed to be our partner on this journey but retrospect says we should have done things differently. That said, there's hopefully been lessons learned in all quarters and now it's time to move forwards so let's see what Jordan's Zoom meeting throws up and we'll do our level best to progress from there.

Re: Bute / Coniston Back to Back

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:00 am
by Richie
Probably worth you giving a brief to a representative of the project and taking a step back from the meeting table, your words tend to stab like a rapier and slash like a katana, two swords both elegant but deadly....