The Sponsons Thread

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quicksilver-wsr
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Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Post by quicksilver-wsr » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:12 pm

Renegadenemo wrote:We never did get a full set of drawings and, ironically, the missing ones all came from the pointy end where we most needed info. The first drawing Ken ever sent was for the recovery cradle. That was early 2001 and discussions about rebuilding the boat started in November 2002 so the sponson drawings arrived around that time. The rest we were sent by John Norris in 2006.
All of the above makes complete sense to me, Bill.

It did occur to me when writing my last post that maybe you never did get a full set. There is a huge time gap there between Ken asking me if I would donate my set to you and you actually getting drawings.

It was all such a pickle, the situation with Ken.

Remember that at this time - early 2001 - I was moving away from Ken. The fact that K7 was about to be raised had nothing to do with the timing of this (John Ackroyd's book is wildly out on this point, as on so many others) but the upshot of all of this - "the Quicksilver affair", as you call it, plus K7 being raised, plus big changes going in Ken's situation down at Bournemouth, as well as his health issues - was that the drawings were not handed over cleanly to you as one full set, which they should have been.

I was having a sort-out a few weeks ago and I came across a list of all the K7 drawings, and design calculations too, that I secured on six-month loan from the Science Museum back in 1992 or '93. Would it help now if I found that list, or is it too late now in the restoration process?

One way of still getting access to the drawings themselves is to get permission to photograph them in situ at the Science Museum.

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Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Post by Renegadenemo » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:41 am

I was having a sort-out a few weeks ago and I came across a list of all the K7 drawings, and design calculations too, that I secured on six-month loan from the Science Museum back in 1992 or '93. Would it help now if I found that list, or is it too late now in the restoration process?
Thanks for the offer, Nigel, but I reckon we're past what the drawings can do for us. It's been an informative process in that we've learned that Norris Bros. drew one thing before those good craftsmen at Samlesbury put their own twist on everything and often built things as they saw fit. Much of it is subtle - a shim here, a doubler there - but it's always possible to work out what they were thinking and had we not been short of many of the drawings we perhaps would have missed detail that emerged through many hours of frustrated detective work. The upside of this is that after all this time we effortlessly fall into their mindset when a problem needs solving and do it in a way that's utterly authentic. Spooky that they've been able to hand us their way of doing things across the decades through a heap of mangled metal.
It's fascinating, destroying history...
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Rotterdam1953
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K7 Sponsons

Post by Rotterdam1953 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:44 pm

I heard that the thorny subject of K7 sponsons recently arose and I must have missed almost all of the submissions. Could someone please inform me what has been ocurring and/or guide me to the relevant section.
I trust all pertaining correspondence has been ones of moderation?

Many thanks indeed :-)

Arthur



"What good is a dream if you don't make it happen?"

Hi Arthur- have merged your posting into the correct thread -Mike

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Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Post by Terminator » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:20 am

Hi Arthur if you go to page 9 of this thread it starts with a Mr. Dave Halliday simply asking a few questions then it kicks off about half way down as you scroll. Makes interesting reading to a point. However old friend remember personal attacks are not acceptable on this site although It is hard not to sometimes. The main posting has also been copied on to the srg and another coloured website.

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Novie

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Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Post by malcolm uk » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:18 pm

[quote=Of course the ideal would be to find them but even if the sponsons were proven to be truly gone- as in, destroyed- it would still be worth getting that definitive answer once and for all.[/quote]

Not sure that you can prove that the 'negative' definitive answer will apply. You will have to find something to show that they no longer exist as two whole pieces. If those that 'know' are unwilling to give information then much time (better spent on productive reconstruction) will be wasted. We all know where other recovered elements are to be seen and they will not come back to the craft.

Just stay working on that fine cockpit Mike and perhaps one day Novie might wander into the workshop carrying the sponsons, one under each arm. :o Doubt it myself but stranger story lines have been written on soaps.

Malcolm
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Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Post by Terminator » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:56 pm

Malcolm
If part of the deal was we could get those sponsons back if I did carry them, one under each arm,Just give me the chance to try that's all I will say to that Malcolm. 8-)
Arthur will tell you a story better than I can regarding an incident on Pendine Beech regarding a heated moment of madness and batteries. :o Mind you then Bill could tel a different tale that was a necessity whilst out retrieving the front spar.

Lets for a moment forget actually getting the sponsons back and ask the question I quote "Where they went and why" forget the went bit. if somebody anybody calling themselves a TRUE Campbell Enthusiast can give me a valid justifiable reason as to WHY they can never be reunited with Bluebird K7 then we could put this thing to bed once and for all. If you cannot answer that simple question by this evening or WON'T then hang your heads in shame from this moment forward.

Novie

I'm waiting :?:
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Post by Renegadenemo » Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:55 pm

They really make clear just how big the sponsons are, and the shot of DCs head thru the canopy makes it clear just how small the cockpit entrance must be.
The sponsons are huge, which Is why I don't believe for a second that someone messed about burying them in a hole in the ground, and the cockpit opening is tiny - I was in there yesterday and it's very cramped.

In cockpit.jpg
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quicksilver-wsr
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Post by quicksilver-wsr » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:52 pm

Renegadenemo wrote:
They really make clear just how big the sponsons are, and the shot of DCs head thru the canopy makes it clear just how small the cockpit entrance must be.
The sponsons are huge, which Is why I don't believe for a second that someone messed about burying them in a hole in the ground, and the cockpit opening is tiny - I was in there yesterday and it's very cramped.
Going back to my account - the account given to me by Ken Norris in 1990 - of the loss of the sponsons, no-one "messed about burying them in a hole in the ground": they were simply pushed - maybe even bulldozed - into a hole that already existed; a deep hole in the ground, dug-out for foundations.

As you know, when the sponsons were ripped off the sponson-arms in the accident, both sponsons were shorn of their entire upper structure. This reduced their volumetric size considerably.

They were quite slim and slivery without their upper fairing structures. Not small. But not "huge" either.

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Re: Lakeland Motor Museum/'Across The Lake' Mock Up/Sponsons

Post by Terminator » Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:19 pm

Still waiting by the way !

Novie
"Never ride faster than your Angel can fly"

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Post by Renegadenemo » Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:41 am

They were quite slim and slivery without their upper fairing structures. Not small. But not "huge" either.
Twelve feet long and a foot and a half square at their widest point, that's huge enough for me! That's four standard size graves in one go and at least four strong men to carry one or a forklift driver who no one has ever been able to trace.
Then there's the small matter of the builder, skinflints very one of them, who dug a hole that was too big, for some reason and almost had to pay for extra concrete to fill it if someone hadn't fortuitously landed on the scene with half a ton of scrap ally that they didn't feel the need to turn into beer tokens - what an accident!
Then there's the building inspector. My dad was a major house builder on Tyneside during those times so I know a thing or two about that too. He'd be thrilled at the prospect of a new building going up atop a pile of corrosive scrap.
As for hitting the sponsons with the back-actor of a JCB, now that I'd like to see. Why you'd try in the first place, I can't imagine, and the high-duty castings that spanned the sponsons end to end would have taken more of a beating than your average JCB driver could be bothered to give them, assuming he didn't wait 'til no one was looking and haul the damn things straight to the scrapyard to swap for beer tokens...
Come on guys... can we have a scenario that at least stands up to even basic scrutiny?
I'm only a plumber from Cannock...

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