Nomadic, Titanic & other historic vessels

[Mike Bull]

Whoops ! Must have miss read that one Oh well we all can't be perfect

Oh I don't know, you've been doing bloody well on those rivets mate!

[klingon]

Yeah-one wrote "lying in the arms of Mary"-and the other one's a flying boat!

[thunderer]

Don't get me started on paintings / art..

I have a hard enough time justifying the £2000 a time, to purchase and restore a 40 year old Raleigh Chopper kids bike that BITD was dumped on the floor like it didn't matter.

£45m for a piece of "art" that has little to no significance to British culture is a little OTT!

[bluebirdsback]

Sorry you got my title wrong Novie, Easy mistake to make. My actual title is the King of Shedland. My kingdom consists of 160 square feet of my back garden made up of 3 varying size sheds. Not to be confused with the Shetlands. My subjects are 1 dog and two illegal immigrant field mice who have claimed assylum over the winter months claiming benifits of left over biscuits and peanuts. I am hoping to have them deported in the Spring. I have some priceless pieces of artwork in my kingdom, mostly done by my grand daughter from the age of 4 till now when she is 8 years old. In my oppinion art is like good wine, if you like the £2.99 bottle from tesco then to you that is a good wine so enjoy. To me the occasional glance at the pictures and meccano models my grand daughter has made make me smile, so to me that is good art. But how many times would you have to look at that painting and smile to make it worth that much bloody dosh?

[Terminator]

Top man Roberto enjoyed reading that mate.
Catch you later
Novie "
I've Gone"

[Pullman99]

Well, the Duke's Titians certainly stirred up a few emotions. My personal view is that there is a great imbalance over money provided for arts projects of all kinds and the heritage world generally within the UK. Museums and galleries that have had very long term loans of objects have always suffered as a result of lenders wishing - for whatever reasons - to dispose of their assets. Very often, an object may be at the very core of the museum's collections and it does seem a shame when they are effectively forced to seek funding to retain what may have been on public exhibition for generations. The Titians are just the tip of the iceberg. It also depends, I suspect, on how popular the subject matter is. Apparently - and this poll may have been solely within the arts sector - the result of a survey when the first of the two Titians came up for sale was that some 75% of respondents were of the view that these paintings were so important to the nation that they should be acquired.

Anyway. Back on topic - and, coincidentally another £50M costing - is the funding being provided for HMS Victory to be trnssferred to a new charity - the HMS Victory Preservation Trust - from April 1st. That's not a joke, by the way. The ship will become the Flagship of the First Sea Lord and remain available for use by the Royal Navy but it is now not deemed to be appropriate for the MOD to continue as owner. £25M is being given to the new Trust (affiliated to the National Museunm of the Royal Navy) by The Gosling Foundation and £25M by the MOD. Currently a spend of £16M has been underway sincce last year to pay BAe Systems for the first stages of what will be the ship's biggest ever restoration. Although much work was done during the 15 years prior to the bicentenary of the Battle of Trafalgar in 2005, the recent survey work has effectively concluded that HMS Victory is collapsing under her own weight.

Amazingly, however, the report on BBC South Today on Tuesday included an interview with the Chairman of the Trustees who stated that "he thought that it would be VERY EASY to continue to provide funding from the public and commercial sources". We shall see!

More here:

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/hms-victory-nets-50m-as-royal-navy-gifts-her-to-museum-1-3592048

[Mike Bull]

As a kid who was taken to a few of the old 'Navy Days' in the early 80s, I used to be fascinated by the restoration work that was taking place on Victory at the time- her entire front end was pretty much removed at one point, and apparently this followed years where her whole stern had been off, and before that her whole middle, etc...I've often wondered just how much LOOF there's been on the old thing! Never quite been able to find out, but I get the impression that it's a LOT.

[Dominic Owen]

I don't know quite how true it is, but someone told me once that you could probably count on your fingers & toes the number of planks & frames that actually sailed into the Battle of Trafalgar. In terms of British provenence and national connection, however, I still can't see any contest over which gives more value for £50m!
Even a modern American Indy car has an infinitely greater connection to the UK than foreign paint daubed onto foreign canvas in a foreign country by a foreign artist. Does this mean that they too should be bought for/by museums in the name of national heritage??

Hmmm..... I just realised that I haven't yet upset anyone today. I wonder if that will do the trick..

[Dangermouse]

Any vehicle, machinery or structure is like that though. Parts wear out and are replaced or upgraded. I understand that a lot of preserved steam engines have the best bits from two or more different locos fitted, works preparing them for preservation would often snaffle the best condition parts from the scrapline.

Considering the damage Victory took at Trafalgar I'd imagine a fair chunk of her was replaced afterwards (if 90-odd cannonballs shredded one of her sails then a fair number must have hit the rest of her too). I would wonder if the collapsing under her own weight is due to being in dry dock for so long, this must put unexpected stresses on the hull as it can never be supported as evenly as it would be in water?

[thunderer]

"Collapsing under her own weight"

That seems to be a recurring phrase.....Same was said about the Cutty Sark and look what theyhave done to her. Lets hope they do not do to Victory, as they did to the Cutty Sark. What a crying shame that would truly be!